The over-abundance of G43s

[VonMudra]

Voted for historical accuracy.  BTW, on usage of the G43 in the squad level, nominally only 1 G43 was to be issued per squad, to the assistant squad leader.  It was never seen as a replacement for the K98k in the way the Stg44 was, only as a slight upgrade of squad firepower.  Remember, the German army never really cared about getting rid of the K98k, since all their tactics were about the MG34 or 42, not the riflemen.  The Stg44 only came into being as the riflemen were the ones who were to maneuver and attack with the MG42, thus creating a need for the assualt rifle.  However the Gew43 and 41 simply never were really needed.

[Vernah]

I hadn't realized the G43 was unlimited, I usually end up with the 'ZOMG NO MORE G43S FOR YOU LOLZ" message.

Really?? On Lüttich or Cobra? Because I can safely say I have never been denied the use of it on these maps ever (on a close to full server) On PeB or PHL it is often taken however.

edit: @ flippy, I think the absolute best possible solution would be having it as an alternative for the assault kit using the unlockable system, but that is a whole other discussion obviously.

I swear they aren't unlimited, I'll have to see myself if they are indeed unlimited like you say. If they are, then I'd like to see them have limited as well then LOL.

Cobra I think should be a push map, and the germans should get reinforcments as they lose flags, because atm if they lose a flag, they pretty much lose the battle (since they hardly get any reinforcements and they actually lose more armor while the Americans gain).

On the other hand, STG 44s LOLOLOLOLOL

[THeTA0123]

I hate mirror balancing and love historical accuracy so either give G43 to scout or make it limited. Also take HVAP off from 76mm Sherman and make it so that Tiger can one shot to Churchill at least to the sides. I would also like to see FW190 off from Cobra and only one on Totalize to emphasize the Allied air superiority.

76mm sherman=Yes i agree with this
Churchill tank=HELL NO. Not because i love the churchill tank, but because the sides where barely any thinner then the frontal  Churchill tanks infact, where givin priority target in normandy, because they where the only allied tank wich could withstand the gun of the tiger, and because half of them where still armed with the 6PDR, wich had alot of HVAP in supply. Just look at totalize, i did many epic churchill tank rounds on that map.


Regarding the G43. I vote for the Historical accuracy. I just hate it how well every german thing is supplied, and i hold my heart the day the STG44 is made as a limited kit.
Thing is, G43 was rare. Not as rare as the STG44 in normandy, but still rare. Many german troops in normandy where equipped with Bolt action rifles like the K98K and foreign rifles. Simply because of these weapon shortages.

[Eat Uranium]

Looking at this from the strange historical-gameplay aspect that I have, I say that it is best to put the G43 into the scout kit.  This has the following advantages:

- Rifleman kit gets rifle grenades again (a very sore point for me).
- Scout kit sees more use which leads to more arty spots.
- Slightly less grenade spam and prehaps a bit more smoke cover.

Really the only people who lose are those who want a G43 and a grenade in the same kit - and for them there are the pickup kits.

I know that this might not be seen as the most true to history option - but it does mean that I won't die inside whenever I look at the spawn menu.

[Wilhelm]

The problem I have with how the G43 is implemented on a lot of maps is that it takes the place of a regular rifleman kit.  If I decide I want to use the K98, I have to choose to be either an engineer or scout class when all I want is a regular rifleman kit.

 

[LtJimmy]

I'm going with the historical accuracy vote on this one simply by sheer principle: If it's a rare weapon, don't have it in the spawn menu. If it was issued but not that commonly (i.e. the Bren gun wasn't issued to every Commonwealth soldier), limited kit on spawn menu.

[Oddball]

Second option, deffinetely...

[Gl@mRock]

The thing I love about this mod: Historical accuracy.
 

[Ahonen]

Historical option of course.
There's already more than enough mirroring in the game IMO.

[hOMEr_jAy]

Since I´m better with the K98k I don´t really care about the G43, so I´d say, go for the historical approach. Same with the difference between Allied and Axis anti tank kits. Mirroring is boring and would turn FH2 into a simple WW2 VBF2, different kits and loadouts make the game more challenging and in the end it´s the player who wins the game, not the equipment he uses.

[Natty]

I picked #1. It all depends on the leveldesign. If there is a very open map with long distances between the covers the K98 works very well, however on more close combat maps the G43 works better.

Pickup kits work only at certain flags in certain maps. We urge players to play in squads right? Then where is the pickup kit if I spawn on my SL? Am I being punished for teamplaying? I much rather spawn in the base and pick a weapon I can kill the enemy than spawn on my SL with a weapon I cant use.
You need to be given the tools you need to fulfill the job at hand. If we make a tight close quarter map we need to give players spawnable weapons that work in that environment. Just as we need to give AT weapons if there is tank, we need to give good Anti Infantry weapons if there is infs.

One of the core success features in Battlefield games have always been "the right kit at the right time". A player can monitor the situation on the battlefield and pick a kit, pick a spawnpoint and go to battle. If we start to remove this feature too much we are disrupting a very fundamental element. Limited kits and Pickup kits work great in FH2, a great development from FH1, but to remove all the good weapons from the classes will only lead to pickup-kit-weapon-camping and less squadplay.
Yet another topic where history needs to come second to fun gameplay.

[Eat Uranium]

Everything you just said Natty completely goes with option 3 as well.

[Ekalbs]

I Picked 2

I Wish To See Them As Limited Spawn Kits, Not So Much Pick Up Kits. And Don't Want To See The Scout Kit Changed So Maybe Just Make A Semi-Auto Rifleman Kit Selection On The Spawn Menu Or Something. I Strongly Believe In What Natty Says Though.

[Knoffhoff]

For Normandy there is not much to think about. A clear vote for option 2. The G43 was very scarce and in my opinion has no place in the spawn menu, not even as a limited spawnclass.
If the map doesn't work without it, it is the maps problem. Design the maps that they work with the weapons historically used at the time the map is set.

Talking about 0.4 ratio on limited kits. They are useless, even on late war maps when those weapons were more common. You always have to look at the whole thing. On the example of Lüttich you see that with a 0.4 ratio on a full server you will have 14 G43. Add 9 MP40, 4 MG42 and 4 Panzerfausts. That sums up to 31 players being able to use one of the limited kits. Where is the limitation?
In my opinion the ratio on any limited spawnclass should never exceed 1.6 which on a full server allows 6 people to use that class. Exception could of course be made on maps that feature units, it is known that they were especially well equipped.

When the G43 is used as spawnclass on later maps it should in my opinion not replace the regular K98 rifleman. To put it in the scout class certainly is a option but I have my doubts. If you put it there you have to limit the class.
Can those few  people who will get that class provide artillery with enough targets? I think 99% of the players who choose it do so because they want better firepower, not the ability to spot targets.
Another thing I could imagine is removing the engineer class from the spawn menu and replace it with the limited G43 class that we have now. In my opinion the engineer is not really needed on the later maps. His mines already got removed for Normandy because of the maps being much more narrow.
The Geballte Ladung he has now is of course fun but in the matter of gameplay rather insignificant. The only thing that is important on the engineer is the wrench. But that could easily be issued by pickup ammokits at static defences and pickup pilot and tanker kits at vehiclespawns.

Something like this:

[General_Henry]

Something like this:

I think this has a drawback, it limits the number of classes that you could spawn in... unless you have 2 weapons per kit. But so far this don't looked bad.