Author Topic: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections  (Read 24972 times)

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
« on: 30-05-2010, 11:05:20 »
With the elections being on June 9th, the parties started their election campaigns about 1-2 weeks ago.   Parties are starting to spread their propaganda now, the first television and radio debates were last week and more are comming up. So it's full gear for all politcal parties to convince people to vote on them.

______________________________________________________________________
A quick summary of the Dutch politcal parties:
The Dutch politcal parties
 
 The Dutch have the following left(ish) parties:
- PvdA = Partij van de Arbeid (Party of [the] Labour), center left.
- SP = Socialistische Partij (Socialist Party), left.
- GL = Groen Links (Green Left), left.
- PvdD =  Partij voor de Dieren (Party for the animals), left.
 
 The following are conservative (and not uncommonly labeled as rightish):
- CDA = Christen Democratisch Appèl (Christian Democrat Party/Allience), a bit conservative a bit liberal
- CU = Christen Unie (Christian Union), a more conservative party, also a bit more social (due to the social aspect of the bible)
- SGP = Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij  (Polical Calvinists Party), a very orthox/conservative party.
 
 The following parties are liberal (following the ideology of liberalism, often labeled as rightish):
- D66 = Democraten '66 (Democrats '66) centrist/somewhat-liberal, it ain't extremely (economically) liberal orientated neither very social orientated.
- VVD = Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (PeoplesParty for Freedom and Democracy), liberal party (socially but especially economically), favours coporations so to say.
 
 And the two "populist party's are also seen as liberal, and the political leaders actually left the liberal VVD party:
- PVV = Partij Voor de Vrijheid (Party for [the] Freedom), individualist populist party, let by Geert Wilders.
- ToN = Trots op Nederland (Proud of the Netherlands), an other individualist  populist party.

(Bit outdated, 2006, compass):


And then there are a few new and minor parties such as "Lijst 1" and I believe the Pirate Party is also running.. haven't heard much about those yet though...  It seems rather unlikely that they will win any seats.

And no, we don't have any silly First Past The Post systems, it's simple a representative vote to devide the 150 lower house seats.
________________________________________________________________________________

What have polls shown so far during the past weeks?

Just after the goverment stepped down, and during the municipal elections surveys indicated a the CDA to be head, closely followed by the PvdA and PVV.   Though things appear to have dramatically in the course of 4-5 weeks. It took me by suprise for sure. Just before my holiday in mid March, Geert Wilder's PVV party seemed to take 1st or 2nd place in surveys, but after I came back they lost a lot of support in favour of the liberal VVD.

Surveys:
Current polls predicts the following amount of seats:

VVD  (Conservative Liberals): 38 - 36 - 36
PvdA (Labour, SocialDem): 29 - 32 - 29
CDA (ChristianDemocrats): 25 - 20 - 25
PVV (Populist NationalConservative): 17 - 19 - 17
D66 (centrist/socialliberal): 9 - 12 - 9
SP (DemocraticSocialists): 10 - 9 - 11
GL (Greenparty): 11 - 9 - 11
CU (ChristianCons): 7 - 9 - 8
SGP (ChristianCons): 2 - 2 - 2
PvdD (Animalparty): 2 - 1  - 2
ToN (populist ConservativeLiberal): 0 - 1  - 0
Others (Pirate Party, Lijst 17, Human&Spirit party, ...): 0 - 0  - 0

Sources: Synovate, TNS Nipo and Peil/deHond, respectively.

The reason? In February-March the main topic was intergration and safety. But now the main topic became economics (the whole deal with the euro, publication of the research into the banking crisis etc.). Wilders and his PVV ruled supreme in the intergration and safety debate but he's much weaker when it comes to economics. The VVD however has constistently hammered on fixing the economy, creating jobs and making the goverment more efficient (laying off  X goverment workers to safe money).

Possible coalitions: VVD+CDA+PVV, VVD+CDA+D66, VVD+PvdA+D66(+GL).
A leftish coalition (PvdA+SP+GL+D66) seems rather unlikely. So we may see a centrist (centre left, centrist, centre right) as usual, or a rightwing coalition. A right winged coalition with PVV would also be tricky due some majot disagreements between PVV on one side and the VVD and CDA on the other, mainly about intergration and the age of retirment. In additional several prominent (ex) party members have threatend to resign their membership of either the CDA or VVD party.
« Last Edit: 13-06-2010, 14:06:46 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline 508th PIR Hawkeye

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #1 on: 30-05-2010, 12:05:56 »
Our parties are one big laugh...

Populist party's rule the political enviorment atm, and I am against all that nationalist crap they're putting us up with. Then we got the one-issue parties which should be forbidden. And I don't think religion and politics are a good rational combination (as religion is -in my opinion- not rational).

I would vote for the labour party (PVDA) or the democrats (D66)

We need a party for the common man in times of economic crisis and social unrest, not some right-winged party which lives in a fantasy world...

Then again, I'm sceptical about Dutch politics on it's own.
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #2 on: 30-05-2010, 12:05:51 »
I myself haven't made up my mind yet. I would call myself a liberal democratic-socialist. Favouring social liberties and to some extend also in the economy (but I don't trust big business so they do need to be kept in check via regulations) and ofcourse a fair amount of social justice, helping out the less or (temporary) unfortunate to get things back on track while trying to discourage leeches ("lazy bums") to profit/abuse the social welfare system. So that means I'd be most likely to vote between either SP (Socialst Party), PvdA (Party of Labour), GroenLinks (GreenLeft) or D66 (Democrats66). I have no idea yet as what I will be voting on.

In orevious elections I voted on either (or both, when my brother allowed me to vote for him ) SP and D66. Might go with one of those agian but this time around GL might be a bit more appealing then the SP. And the PvdA has taken some steps to the left again... so I don't rule them out either. Going to dig into those party programs somewhere this week to form a firm, well informed basis to base my final vote/decision on.

If you would force me to name just one party... D66. Reasonably social reasonably liberal.  Atleast they aren't stubborn when it comes to much needed eonomic reforms such as reorganizing the housing market (Hypotheekrenteaftrek: Mortageinterest tax deduction) or current laws regarding employement (ontslagrecht: Rights when it comes to laying people off). If you have a penthouse in Wassenaar you don't need that mortgage tax deduction, it was never meant to favour the rich that much. And if you run a business you should be able to fire people who got it comming to them without having to go through a couple of years of appeals, objections and so on. Obviously people shouldn't get into financial trouble over mortage related reforms, and a labourer shouldn't have to fear being able to be layed off for qustionable reasons.

Offline Mud Buddha

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #3 on: 30-05-2010, 14:05:49 »
I'm so done with mainstream dutch politics (PVDA/VVD/CDA, you know, the mainstay parties) so I will again probably vote either SP or PVDD. Also the religious parties. It is just too plain weird that in 2010 we have a government ruling our lovely free spirited little country that is still largely made up of parties that base their morals on something backwards like christianity. Basically we have modernistic politicians in a post-modernistic age.

Most dutch politicians make Holland out to be this unsafe place on the brink of (economic) chaos to pull voters while in real life we live in one of the richest, safest, most modern countries in the world. They prey on individual insecureties of the population (terror! crisis! immigration!) while the bigger picture is a lot different.

Also, politicians like our last prime minister Balkenende are too scared to go against the grain on the worldwide political front and are just lapdogging the US and UK and well, basically every other country that's bigger than us. They all come with their billion euro saving solutions but if we for instance just forget about the Joint Strike Fighter we could save a lot of money in one go.
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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #4 on: 30-05-2010, 17:05:14 »
We need someone steadfast, a leader, which dares to say what's on his mind. Without getting populistic/nationalistic.

I say the old mayor of Amsterdam -Job Cohen- together with the right subordinates will make a fine goverment.
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Offline Abuzer

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #5 on: 30-05-2010, 20:05:32 »
Hmmm, interesting to see such a deep discussion going on in English about this, also good to see the developed views of the Dutch FH community. Having studied Political Science and worked for a time in The Hague (governmental capital, like Bonn in the BRD) I'm quite suprised to have to go all the way to the FH off topics to find a decent topic about Dutch electoral politics.

However when it comes to my opinion, I don't have much to add to the previous posters.

All people who will vote for the PVV are either to stupid or plain racist, both those qualifications are compatible by the way. I really dislike the idea of a VVD-CDA-PVV government, something which will hurt the county in many aspects and probably won't even get rid of problems such as Moroccan youth criminals. Mortgage interest reduction (what was the proper English term again?) is a clear example of the stupidity in our country and frequently I have to lecture people in their 50's to what's actually right. It's a system making the rich even richer with government money, money we could spent on education or health care. It's also a shame that our leftist leaders can't condemn the right wingers for putting the fear of financial instability in regular people's head. But then again, our left wing parties don't want nuclear plants to return to the Netherlands, while according to scientists that is the most pragmatic thing to do.

Anyways, a VVD(which has some strong points as a party, can't deny that)-PVV(Pure populism and stupidity) and CDA (Christian orientated politics might be just as stupid) will polarize this country and even I will condemn the people that don't oppose a government like that. Might even have to get to the point that we will have to demonstrate!

Also, we are almost the richest country in the EU, our national debt is almost the lowest in the EU.
Get some goddamn improvements in the educational system! We can afford that at least. Thus. I think I will vote for the D'66 party, with some healthy "tegenzin"
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Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #6 on: 30-05-2010, 20:05:33 »
Don't get me started over this bullocks but I will anyways because I do believe it's all bullshit but interesting nonetheless.

Anyways, Cohen is no go for me, he makes me facepalm so much  :P

Quote
Possible coalitions: VVD+CDA+PVV, VVD+CDA+D66, VVD+PvdA+D66(+GL).

Rutte himself said Purple would not happen, VVD refuses to go together with PvdA.

My personal favor goes to VVD and D66 at the moment. They both get first or second place in every 'test' and I agree with both parties plus the persons seem fit. For me, ideally, it would be VVD/D66/PVV but thats a dream on scenario. Most likely is your first one, VVD/CDA/PVV if they manage to convince Balkenende which is not hard lol.

Everything except for PvdA. They ruined it enough, let someone else ruin it now.

Again I see someone calling the PVV racist and if you studied Political Science and say that you failed your tests I assume. Racist is something else then islamophobic, which they are. They are not racist, it annoys me that everyone says hes against 'buitenlanders' thats bullshit. Not that I vote for him, tad to crazy if you ask me.
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Offline Smiles

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #7 on: 31-05-2010, 00:05:40 »
I still find it a disgrace for humanity PVV gets as many voters as they do. I will never forgive CDA for the VOC mentality(and they involve religion), VVD will never loose its image as hypocrital rich bastards, CU doesnt exist. PvdD is an one issue party wich is bull (go nature!), GL has yet to impress me with a sane program, i dont like Cohen but i hardly know him, SP were commies and now they arnt. D66 is to small and they fubared (especially with Alexander, alright, hes got some smood talking but it aint no difference). Meh, i dunno i dunno.
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #8 on: 31-05-2010, 00:05:32 »
Hmmm, interesting to see such a deep discussion going on in English about this, also good to see the developed views of the Dutch FH community. Having studied Political Science and worked for a time in The Hague (governmental capital, like Bonn in the BRD) I'm quite suprised to have to go all the way to the FH off topics to find a decent topic about Dutch electoral politics.
The topic still needs to develop, I simplified and summarized things quite a bit. For some real quality discussion and explinations (for foreigners...err... non-Dutchies) I'd need to write a few hundred lines of text at the very least. But that would probably put of most people, so I figured, give a somewhat simplified story, get the debate doing and offer additional insight whenever a (foreigner) asks about more details regarding certain aspects of our politics.


Rutte himself said Purple would not happen, VVD refuses to go together with PvdA.
He said he'd find it rather unlikely, and that the VVD and PvdA haven't been this far apart on both an economic and social scale since the 70's. Or said differently, the PvdA noticed they lost a lot of voters by praising the liberalisation of various markets as "the ultimate solution".  This agenda of  "the third road" (or what's it called again? Third wheel?) has allienated them a bit from their classic supporter base. Those moved to the SP and such.  So for these elections they changed their cours, returning more towards their roots again, and away from the liberal course they favoured in the 90's and for most of the past decade.

I wouldn't mind a new "Paarse" (purple) cabinet of VDD+PvdA (and D66+GreenLeft) at all. It wouldn't be perfect but it could be the best shot we'd have (in my opinion ofourse) at getting a program that wouldn't give big business too much of a free hand (VVD is a party for employers/business owners after all, cruedly speaking) but also should be able to keep us from being too social and making people somewhat "lazy" (sticking in the wellfare system rather then reintergrating and going back to work). 

I sure as hell don't want to see the CDA again, they seemed to get along with the VVD quite reasonably (though  I was pretty unhappy about all the bullcrap liberalisations they introduced, healthcare cheaper and more efficient? Lol... ). But apart from that they didn't get anything done. The last coalition was nearly a brain dead coalition that didn't get much done at all and failed to execute some major/larger items on either the CDA or PvdA agenda. All those topics were "too hot to handle". 

Offline Eglaerinion

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #9 on: 31-05-2010, 10:05:04 »
Hmmm, interesting to see such a deep discussion going on in English about this, also good to see the developed views of the Dutch FH community.

All people who will vote for the PVV are either to stupid or plain racist, both those qualifications are compatible by the way.
Deep discussion huh? I will never for the life of me vote PVV but claiming that over 1 million people are either stupid or racist? I knew this topic would end up being a joke. Good job.
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Offline Stefan

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #10 on: 31-05-2010, 11:05:06 »
If not satisfied im paying you to take all our Belgian politicians
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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #11 on: 31-05-2010, 11:05:06 »
If not satisfied im paying you to take all our Belgian politicians
You do realize this cost will atleast be over 1 billion?
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #12 on: 31-05-2010, 12:05:18 »

Deep discussion huh? I will never for the life of me vote PVV but claiming that over 1 million people are either stupid or racist? I knew this topic would end up being a joke. Good job.
Racist? No, though they are a bit xenophobe (or perhaps cultiphobe, if that's a word...  fearing to lose "the" Dutch culture while culture ain't a static thing and can't be easily put in a box and labeled like "THE Dutch culture"). Dat zie je al aan de woordkeuzes, niet, "immigratie stop/reductie van kansarme migranten" maar "Immigratie stop van niet-westerse migranten".  Dat we niet teveel "kansarme" op kunnen nemen, allah (hehe), maar of je nu uit het hooggebergte komt of uit de Texaanse woestijn... dat doet er weinig toe.

And it remains difficult, sure I ain't too happy either when people get a partner from outside the EU (I don't know how high the number if import bridges/grooms is though), but on the other hand I wouldn't want to deny anyone true love and happiness. So such plans as banning import bridges/grooms is too blunt. What if I would fall in love with some woman from... well, name any country you like, I'd be pretty pissed if I couldn't let her emmigrate out of her country and immigrate into the Netherlands.  That some requirements are set up such as learning the language, being told about our laws, general habits/culture and that the family needs to have a sufficient income, that's all fair game.  

Luckily though, since the start of this decade more and more parties have acknowledge the migration problems and offered a variety of solutions (wether those are true solutions may depend on ones politcal believes though...).

If not satisfied im paying you to take all our Belgian politicians
Surely there must be a few reasonable ones... you can keep the Wallonian ones though... ;)

Offline GooGeL

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #13 on: 31-05-2010, 12:05:46 »
Pirate party go! I've always liked to say yarrr.
Nah but at least they got some important topics that needs to be addressed. All the others only got empty promises and sells their vote.

Though, I don't know much about the dutchies politics.

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #14 on: 31-05-2010, 12:05:03 »
Pirate party go! I've always liked to say yarrr.
The least I expected from them was that their party leader would be dressed as a pirate, making YARRRR sounds randomly through the conversation and so on... I am dissapointed. :( :p

Quote
Nah but at least they got some important topics that needs to be addressed. All the others only got empty promises and sells their vote.

Though, I don't know much about the dutchies politics.
That's a bit of a contradiction not? ;) The opposition parties seem to hold true to their programs, cabinet coalition members have to sacrifse certain things. It ain't always easy. Whatever consensus you will find, somebody will always be displeased.  And if no concensus cna be made, yet other people will be annoyed.

That would be the advantage of a minority cabibet though: parties could stick to their own program, or team up with parties that have a simular view. On the downside: It would be a rather weak goverment, the cabinet or certain ministers could be sent home at pretty much any day, so it wouldn't exactly be a powerfull, leading cabinet/goverment.

Luckily though, with a proper majority coalition, parties are still free to vote along party lines in minor topics. But it's the major ones, the "controversial" ones that often require a compromise and in turn may upset the public: people being pissed of not getting a fair share of the pie, or having giving away too much and that thus the compromise is crap.