Author Topic: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections  (Read 25066 times)

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #60 on: 10-06-2010, 13:06:44 »
Personal preferences Smiles, nowhere did I say they did do wrong in my last few posts, I just feel way more comfortable with VVD's ideas then with PvdA's view on things and the majority agrees.

All I really want is some balance in the Dutch media as it's all leftist. Public channels are leftist, newspapers are leftist, etc.

Ofcourse there is some right stuff but even thats annoying. Wish some newspaper dared to be neutral on not spill propaganda in every article, particulry annoyed me with Trouw and Vrij Nederland, Wilders bashing on one page and Cohen praising on the other one, tired of that.
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #61 on: 10-06-2010, 13:06:03 »
Ughh can't believe PVV won this many votes. Do the voters really believe that with Wilders in the government all Islamic people in Holland will get booted out of the country ??

I almost would say let them be in the ruling coalition, so we can have a rerun of the LPF disaster and be done with it.
I"m not sure how many people are actually islamofobic, perhaps 10+ seats or so. The rest might mostly be just for the "we will close the borders for (all) immigrants" even though other parties have promised the same or came quite close. So for people who are concerned with the immigration (and perhaps intergration) topic, you wouldn't be limited to just the PVV. But perhaps these people are a bit more conservative on other areas such as reforming the labour market, housing market, education and ofcourse wellfare, where they couldn't identify themselves with either VVD, CDA or SP. Ofcourse they could have voted for Trots op Nederland too but as she was kinda portrayed as a loser and at the very least failed to get any media attention people who might have had a close match with ToN went to the PVV instead.

But yeah, although I'm hoping for a Paars (purple) cabinet who is willing to reform, get the economy back on track although not makking the cuts too exessive to become unsocial or outright brutal. A purple cabinet in theory could reform the labour market in a social-liberal way, the housing market, education and all that. If the VVD and PvdA can give up some "heilige huisjes" ( "sacred house" aka taboos). WHich basically mean both would need to water down their program to be more in line with D66 and GroenLinks ( :D ).

But on the other hand, I fear that the VVD might want to cut too drastically, at the cost of the lower and middle class and in favour of the elite (higher class).  So if the VVD wouldn't be willing to water down it's program enough I'd rather have them join a coalition with CDA and PVV. It would be a very cold hearted coalition who'd fuck us all in the  arse aswell as probably damaging our image abroad and gaining less in the long term. But perhaps it would wake people up a bit that going too the conservative right wing spectrum isn't too smart (in my opinion atleast...), the coalition would most likely fall and we'd see people returning to the CDA and other (established) parties. Not that the CDA is all that great (right-of-centre conservatives is what they are).

And thus we'd end up with a centrist coalition, like we have had for decades. Sometimes the accent was towards rightwing-conservatism, rightwing-liberalism, social-left etc.

Personal preferences Smiles, nowhere did I say they did do wrong in my last few posts, I just feel way more comfortable with VVD's ideas then with PvdA's view on things and the majority agrees.
Hmm well overall we seem to have moved to the right a bit. Though it would be interesting if we'd asked all voters who'd they prefer if they could only chose between VVD and PvdA. Currently that might be won with a small margin by the VVD if we'd shamelessly asume that most CDA, SGP, CU and PVV people would go to the VVD. The SP, GrL, part of the CU and part of D66 would go to PvdA. Perhaps it would be a 55-60% vs 45-40% in favour of the VVD.

Quote
All I really want is some balance in the Dutch media as it's all leftist. Public channels are leftist, newspapers are leftist, etc.
Lol. The public channel is filled with broadcasters then openly support various christian views (and with that, most likely the CDA, CU and SGP), about two-three lefties (the VARA and VPRO might favour social-democrats) and now we have Pwnd and that program by the Telegraaf who quite clearly favour the conservative right wing liberals (VVD and PVV).  So overall it's rather centrist.

As for the newspapers, The Volkrant is progressive (leftist), the NRC.. centrist I believe, The AD liberal ( ? ), the Financial papers are commonly seen as liberal aswell for obvious reasons, and the Telegraaf, which is the most popular newspaper of all... it clearly a populist liberal (right wing) newspaper.

As for the radio.. dunno, could be that there are a whole bunch of "hippies" and "artistic peopel" (lefties) there.
Quote
Ofcourse there is some right stuff but even thats annoying. Wish some newspaper dared to be neutral on not spill propaganda in every article, particulry annoyed me with Trouw and Vrij Nederland, Wilders bashing on one page and Cohen praising on the other one, tired of that.
I don't read Trouw, but it atleast historically used to be an orthodox-protestant newspaper, which would put them in the pro-christain pool and this right wing conservatist. 

Didn't they conduct some sort of invesitgation to see how neutral or biased the (public) media was? And that it was rated as being mostly either "social" (leftish) and "christians" (conservative) but that it did lack a  liberal sound, which is why we got Pwned and that Telegraaf program in right now. The NOS (Dutch Public News) was rated as overall quite neutral I thought.
« Last Edit: 10-06-2010, 13:06:35 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline Lightning

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #62 on: 10-06-2010, 13:06:55 »
leftist [...] Wilders bashing
Newspapers are bashing Wilders because he's an idiot, not because he's right-winged and they are left-winged...

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #63 on: 10-06-2010, 13:06:25 »
Sorry Donutz, I first wrote about Christian/leftist but then wasn't happy about my text so rewrote it without Christians, my bad as I do mean Christian media too  :P

Trouw currently is filled to the brim with PvdA advertising hidden in all articles, it starts neutral but ends with the conclusion that the PvdA is obviously right in everything.

Yeah theres the Telegraaf, sort of right winged newspaper but high gossip percentage. PowNed is nice but only 15 minutes before midnight (IIRC). Telegraaf's project is something I have not yet seen so can't judge that yet but I did understand they too go for some more rightside in the leftside bowl.

Well Lightning, if they really do that it's time they stop as it's damn annoying, their 'news' consists of blackmailing Wilders and even if he is an idiot it doesn't disprove the fact they are constantly bashing the right side and praising the left side.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline NTH

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #64 on: 10-06-2010, 13:06:55 »
Sorry Donutz, I first wrote about Christian/leftist but then wasn't happy about my text so rewrote it without Christians, my bad as I do mean Christian media too  :P

Trouw currently is filled to the brim with PvdA advertising hidden in all articles, it starts neutral but ends with the conclusion that the PvdA is obviously right in everything.

Yeah theres the Telegraaf, sort of right winged newspaper but high gossip percentage. PowNed is nice but only 15 minutes before midnight (IIRC). Telegraaf's project is something I have not yet seen so can't judge that yet but I did understand they too go for some more rightside in the leftside bowl.

Well Lightning, if they really do that it's time they stop as it's damn annoying, their 'news' consists of blackmailing Wilders and even if he is an idiot it doesn't disprove the fact they are constantly bashing the right side and praising the left side.

Fuchs, you have a large case of self-fulfilling prophecy. When I look at RTL, Telegraaf, PowNed, BNR, NRC, Elsevier en Nieuwe Revu. They are right of the centre.

I do agree with you that's it's annoying when media show any blatant bias.

@Rob
Wilders said in his victory Speech: "We have had enough of Islam in the Netherlands".
It will be a real disillusion for people who voted for him, if they think this is not the main pillar of his party.


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #65 on: 10-06-2010, 14:06:16 »
I meant to psot this earlier but here's a generic overview by some proffesor in politics, the same one that made the compass posted on page 1 for the 2006 elections:



It doesn't seem too far off, though the SP might be a bit more conservative then suggested here and the PVV a bit more to the right (perhaps certain views on say the WAO, social security and such dragged him a bit too the left?).

Regarding the media bias:
Newspapers:  "Newspapers are more likely to be right winged rahter then left winged" according to a study by political scientist André Krouwel. "The Telegraaf is quite clearly right winged with headlines such as 'the Dutch are pressured/pushed into paying their taxes on time'. The Volkskrant is more leftish but not as leftish as the Telegraaf is rightish".

Leftish newspaper: Volkskrant
Christian (conservative, rightish): Trouw, Reformatorisch Dagblad
Liberal: Financieel Dagblad, Algemeen Dagblad, Telegraaf
See: http://medianetwerk.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2159784:BlogPost:863

Television bias:
"The news agencies NOS (public news agency), and RTL (commercial news agency) mostly just follow those in power: covering the party leaders (of those in the coalition), the Leftish opposition don't have much to say" according to the above mentioned political scientist.
Source: http://www.denieuwereporter.nl/2008/10/onderzoek-naar-politieke-kleur-nader-bekeken/

And about the NOS:
Quote
Zelfonderzoek naar kleur van de Publieke Omroep

In november 2007 kondigde de Publieke Omroep onderzoek te gaan (laten) doen naar de vermeende "linksheid" van zichzelf.[3] Naast de kleur van de omroep moet ook duidelijk worden of de publieke omroep zich op de maatschappelijke elite of juist op het volk richt, op autochtonen of allochtonen en op randstedelingen of op mensen uit "de provincie".
[bewerken] Enquête over politieke kleur

In een uitzending rondom het 50-jarig jubileum presenteerde het NOS Journaal de resultaten van een door bureau Peil.nl gehouden enquête, waarin de ondervraagden was gevraagd of de berichtgeving van het journaal politiek gekleurd zou zijn. Op de vraag of het NOS journaal in het algemeen aan objectieve nieuwsberichtgeving doet, antwoordde 81 procent van de ondervraagden bevestigend. Desondanks werd de invalshoek van het NOS-Journaal door 36 procent als links ervaren, tegenover 60 procent als neutraal en 2 procent als rechts. 56 procent stelde van de Nederlandse nieuwsprogramma's het meest naar het NOS Journaal te kijken, en 68 procent van de respondenten stelde dat het NOS Journaal kwalitatief het beste nieuwsprogramma maakt als het gaat om objectieve nieuwsberichtgeving. Opvallend in dit onderzoek is dat de mate waarin het journaal als objectief wordt gezien sterk afhangt van de politieke kleur van de ondervraagde. Van de ondervraagden die in 2003 Wilders stemden vond 61% het journaal over het algemeen objectief, bij GroenLinks was dat 99%. Bij de vraag wat kwalitatief het beste nieuwsprogramma was komt een soortgelijk beeld naar voren, van LPF (24%) tot GroenLinks (85%).[4]
[bewerken] Interne schaduwverkiezing in 2002

(...)

De huidige hoofdredacteur schreef in 2003 op de site van het NOS Journaal dat hij twijfelde of het Journaal wel objectief genoeg was. Ik heb me ook gerealiseerd dat we bevooroordeeld zijn. In de Verenigde Staten is het boek 'Bias' van ex-CBS-journalist Bernard Goldberg een bestseller geweest. Hij zegt daarin met grote stelligheid dat de media de neiging hebben -onbewust, niet eens vanuit een samenzwering, ik zei het al- nieuws vanuit een eenzijdig, progressief getinte invalshoek te bekijken. En we weigeren er stil bij te staan. "When it comes to arrogance, power, and lack of accountability, journalists are probably the only people on the planet who make lawyers look good", citeert Goldberg. Hij verklaart erin dat journalisten bij rechtse groepen heel snel over extreem-rechts schrijven, maar dat aan de linkerkant bijna nooit doen. Hoe pro-abortus-activisten empathischer worden behandeld dan anti-abortus-activisten. En -ook al overdrijft-ie af en toe- inderdaad, wij doen dat ook. Ik heb nog eens een lange discussie op de redactie gevoerd over mijn stelling dat het niet aan ons is te spreken over "de oorlogszuchtige president Bush".[9]
Source: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOS_Journaal
Bonus: http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Cultuur-Televisie/188885/Toch-geen-onderzoek-naar-linkse-publieke-omroep.htm?forum=181955

So in all that sounds quite neutral, with perhaps a small, unintentional bias towards the "progressive elite" (which could be both (democratic)socialists and liberals and thus a bit left but also right winged).

 :P


Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #66 on: 10-06-2010, 14:06:34 »
I wholeheartidly disagree with that research, Trouw is definately leftist, just received the newspaper for a while, twas free and an extra paper doesn't matter and the leftist level was high :P

For me AD is very neutral on most points, always read that newspaper on work. Must say it's my favourite one, maybe that also plays with the judgement as we do like to see our own views as neutral but still I feel like it's quite neutral.

Reformatorisch is definately Christian, in the name already lol.

Fuchs, you have a large case of self-fulfilling prophecy. When I look at RTL, Telegraaf, PowNed, BNR, NRC, Elsevier en Nieuwe Revu. They are right of the centre.

I do agree with you that's it's annoying when media show any blatant bias.

Disagree on RTL but again they cover both sides, agreed on Telegraaf, PowNed is new, NRC not really; more just neutral, Elsevier definately, Nieuwe Revu is something I never really checked on but I did read Castricum has a column there.

NOS wins the neutrality awards though, thumbs up for them.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #67 on: 10-06-2010, 14:06:31 »
Sorry Donutz, I first wrote about Christian/leftist but then wasn't happy about my text so rewrote it without Christians, my bad as I do mean Christian media too  :P
Hehe, alright.

Quote
Trouw currently is filled to the brim with PvdA advertising hidden in all articles, it starts neutral but ends with the conclusion that the PvdA is obviously right in everything.

Yeah theres the Telegraaf, sort of right winged newspaper but high gossip percentage. PowNed is nice but only 15 minutes before midnight (IIRC). Telegraaf's project is something I have not yet seen so can't judge that yet but I did understand they too go for some more rightside in the leftside bowl.
I'd have to take you worth on it. Perhaps they were sick an tired of the CDA and for the lack of a Protestant (progressive) chrisitan party the next closest party could be the PvdA. Bu this is jsut speculation from my end.


Fuchs, you have a large case of self-fulfilling prophecy. When I look at RTL, Telegraaf, PowNed, BNR, NRC, Elsevier en Nieuwe Revu. They are right of the centre.
I do admit I view RTL as a bit populist and more geared towards newstainment. And as it is populism seems to be more frequently associated with "(somewhat) right winged". The RTL news, though I don't watch it often, seems... alright when it comes to bias. Don't know about those newstainment programs.. I'd be tempted to label them as "populist, somewhat right winged".  But this could be bias on my sight as I almost always want o stab my eyes, ears and brains out if I am exposed to shitty tabloid style journalism.

From the above it shouldn't be too difficult to guess what my opinion of the Telegraaf is. I myself only read a local newspaper (Leidsch Dagblad, which seems pretty neutral to me, with the odd slightly biased articles towards pretty much any scale on the politcal spectrum.

Quote
I do agree with you that's it's annoying when media show any blatant bias.
Yes, though I'd hope/assume few people oppose of an unbiased media (or atleast a media that genuinly tries to be objective, but they too may fail for a variety of reasons).

Quote
@Rob
Wilders said in his victory Speech: "We have had enough of Islam in the Netherlands".
It will be a real disillusion for people who voted for him, if they think this is not the main pillar of his party.
Yeah, those one liners and shameless generalisations are quite tiresome. The main pilar quite clearly is "the immigration problems and failed intergration... and this almost always happen to be Islamists", which gets simplied in one liners such as "stop the flood of muslims" etc.

Reducing the amount of "kansloze immigranten" makes sense, but that is already a generalisation. In certain areas of the labour market we have a shortage or may expect a shortage of men. To fill in those gaps we probably will have to count on immigrants. Both highly educated ones but also "uneducated" ones.  So that's one reason why I raise the "stop that BS" flag in regards to Wilders.  That we may demand people to abide the law and respect our culture (which doesn't equal copying it!) is also a given. Most parties do acknowledge these.. well.. facts though. But they differ in opinion on solutions to certain problems.

I wholeheartidly disagree with that research, Trouw is definately leftist, just received the newspaper for a while, twas free and an extra paper doesn't matter and the leftist level was high :P

For me AD is very neutral on most points, always read that newspaper on work. Must say it's my favourite one, maybe that also plays with the judgement as we do like to see our own views as neutral but still I feel like it's quite neutral.

Reformatorisch is definately Christian, in the name already lol.


Sadly the article doesn't link to the actual report but only made a very general summary, which I summarized further. Actually it listed which politcal parties read which newspapers and the AD for example was popular among the VVD.   I haven't read the AD often but it seems fairly neutral from what I can remember, the NRC... not so bad either.  Haven't read it in years though.

Oh and about the NOS. Ferrie Mingele appeared to be a closet liberal though. Making a comment along the lines of "and let's now ask the future coalition leader *faces Rutte". Hehe. IThat wasn't the most wisest (neutral) phrase to use, but I'm sure it was meant un a humourist way.
« Last Edit: 10-06-2010, 14:06:48 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #68 on: 10-06-2010, 17:06:17 »
No, Ferrie is not a closet-liberal. More a closet-socialist. You seen the last debate how he gave Cohen 3 times more speaker time then all the others?  :P
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Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #69 on: 10-06-2010, 17:06:51 »
No, Ferrie is not a closet-liberal. More a closet-socialist. You seen the last debate how he gave Cohen 3 times more speaker time then all the others?  :P
If he was a closet-socialist he'd have granted Roemer of the SP more time. ;) This would make him a closet Social-Democrat. Or if he also kinda likes Rutte, he might be a closet liberal-social-democrat (D66, GroenLinks spectrum). Hehehe.

__________________________________________________________________
Possible coalitions (requires 76 or more seats):
VVD+CDA+PVV = 76 "Right winged"
VVD+PvdA+GL+D66 = 81 "Purple+"
VVD + PvdA + CDA = 82 "National coalition"
PvdA+CDA+GL/D66+SP= 76 "Centrist Left winged"
PvdA+CDA+GL+D66+SP= 86 "Centrist Left winged"
VVD+PvdA+SP=76 "(social) Liberal conservatist"

PvdA+SP+GL+D66= 65 "Leftwinged" (minority)

So let's take a look at what binds or sets these parties apart that may form various coalitions:
Housing:
- Change "Mortageinteresttaxdeduction"? yes: PvdA, SP, GL, D66 no: CDA, VVD, PVV
- More "market influence" in rental sector? yes: CDA, PvdA, VVD, GL, D66 no: SP, PVV
- Change/cut "transfer tax" on buildings? yes: PvdA, VVD, GL, D66. unknown: CDA, SP, PVV
- Change/cut taxes on notional rental value for owners-occupiers ? yes: PvdA, VVD, GL, D66 no: CDA unknown: SP, PVV
- Rise in rents higher then inflation? yes: CDA, PvdA, VVD, GL, D66. no: PVV, SP

Education:
- Higher budget:  yes: PvdA, SP, VVD, GL, D66. no: CDA, PVV
- Studyloan instead of "gift": yes: PvdA, VVD, GL, D66. no: CDA, SP, PVV
- Free schoolbooks: yes: CDA, PvdA, SP. no: VVD, PVV, GL, D66
- More money to teachers: yes: CDA, PvdA, SP, VVD, GL, D66. no: PVV
- Social apprenticeship program:  yes: CDA, PvdA, SP, PVV. no: VVD, GL, D66
- Special (religous) schools have to accept all pupils who promise to respect the school?: yes: PvdA, SP, VVD, GL, D66 no: CDA, PVV

Internal affairs:
- Less officials: yes: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA, VVD, PVV no: -
- Federal police: yes: VVD, PVV no: PvdA, SP, D66 unknown: GL, CDA
- abolish "water(works) boards/councils":  yes: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA. unknown: VVD, PVV
- Smaller "2nd Chamber" (lower house): yes: GL, VVD, PVV no: PvdA, D66, CDA unknown: SP
- Abolish "1st Chamber" (higher house): yes: GL, D66, PVV. no: PvdA, SP, CDA, VVD
- Safety > privacy:   yes: CDA no: PvdA, GL, D66, VVD unknown: PVV
- Higher (jail)sentences:  yes: CDA, VVD, PVV no: GL, D66 unknown: PvdA, SP
- Legalize growing of cannabis: yes: PvdA, SP, D66 no: GL, CDA, VVD unknown: PVV

Foreign affairs:
- Cut in defence budget: yes: PvdA, PVV, SP, D66, GL no: CDA, VVD
- Cut in foreignaid: yes: VVD, PVV no: PvdA, CDA, SP, GL, D66
- Stop with JSF project: yes: PvdA, PVV, SP, D66, GL no: CDA, VVD
- Expantion EU: yes: PvdA, D66, GL. no: VVD, PVV. unknown: CDA, SP
- Less money to the EU: yes: PvdA, VVD, PVV, SP, D66, GL unknown: CDA

Immigration and intergration policies:
- Can "black" schools remain black? yes: CDA, VVD no: PvdA, GL, SP, D66 unknown: PVV
- Shelters in the local area of Asylum seekers?: yes: PvdA, SP, CDA, VVD, PVV unknown: D66, GL
- Make it a crime to be an illegal immigrant? yes: VVD, PVV no: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA
- Thougher on marriagemigration?: yes: PvdA, GL, SP, CDA, VVD, PVV. no: D66
- SPeaking Dutch a priority? yes: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA, VVD, PVV no: -
- Adapt to Dutch culture? yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, PVV no: D66 unknown: GL, SP

Climate policies:
- Nuclear energy: yes: CDA, VVD, PVV, D66 (last resort) no: PvdA, GL, SP
- EU 2020 co2 emission targets? yes: CDA, SP no: PvdA, PVV, D66, GL unknown: VVD *
- Higher emission target then the EU: yes: PvdA, SP, D66, GL no: CDA, PVV unknown: VVD
- Make the tax system "green": yes: PvdA, CDA, SP, D66, GL  no: PVV unknown: VVD
- Subsidize new renewable energy technology: yes: PvdA, VVD, SP, D66, GL. no: CDA, PVV
- Stop expantion "factory farming": yes: PvdA, CDA, PVV, SP, D66, GL  unknown: VVD
- Less terrain for nature preservation: yes: CDA, VVD no: PvdA, SP, GL, D66 unknown: PVV
* Bit misleading. GL and D66 for example have an co2 emmision plan for 2040-2050 (100% renewable energy etc.) it simply mean that they disagree with the EU treaty/policy.

Healthcare:
- Raise minimum price before you get compensated*: yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, PVV, D66, GL no: SP
- Expand "market influence": yes: CDA, VVD, D66 no: PvdA, PVV, SP, GL
- Director is the boss in hospital, also over medical specialists: yes: PvdA, CDA, SP, D66, GL unknown: VVD, PVV
- Reduce items in the "primairy healthcare package" coverage: yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, PVV, D66. no: SP, GL
- Reduce coverage for living retirementhomes etc.: yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, D66, GL unknown: SP, PVV
* Below this price you'll have to pay for the bill yourselves


Source: http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1385928.ece/Verkiezingsprogrammas_uitgeplozen_alles_wat_u_weten_moet

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #70 on: 10-06-2010, 17:06:36 »
I stand corrected, social-democrat indeed.

Very interesting list, clears my mind on D66. Used to have alot of sympathy for them but their school and integration points bother me. They want to make it a loan for me and on top of that don't even want to give me 'free' books! Bwah  ;)

And marriage immigration is cheating IMO, they should be a tad tougher on that.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #71 on: 10-06-2010, 19:06:05 »
The studyloan is a pity, but the student compensation for their costs for going to uni/college has been raped a lot over the past 20 years or so...

As for the free schoolbooks, I payed for mine bck in the day (well my parents) so so can you. Only the poor families should be compensated. And schools/boards may be less tempted to go for the cheapest schoolbooks but chose the "best" (best price/quality) books without having to worry about this being denied due to costing too much taxes.

On marriage immigration the progressive parties (D66 and GL atleast) do demand things such as the partner being able to support the import-bridge/groom, being atleast 18 years old and the standard intergration demands such as learning the language and finding a job. Quite fair if you ask me, if I'd fall in love with a chick abroad (from outside the EU), I'd be pretty pissed if marriae migration would be banned or pretty much impossible.  Ofcourse I do find it silly that some orthodox/conservative religous folk (muslims) ish to get a conservative/orthodox partner from their home country. But that's kinda hard to stop unless we'd severely restrict any kind of "partner importation".

The list below is a bit simplistic, for a proper review you'd need to look at a (summarized) comment on why these parties are for/against and a further explination/details.
___________________________________

Here is a more clear list, made a  quick graphic:




^ The last point basically means that a Roman-Catholic school can't deny pupils to join their school if they are agnostic/atheist/protestant/.../ , although they should respect the schools principles (aslong as those are within the law ofcourse).



GL, D66 want "fair and effective sentences" WHich not only punish the criminal but should focus on rehabilitation in society (studying, working etc.) to lessen the chanches of criminals falling back into their old pattern. No, they don't want to "hug" brutal seria murdering rapist physco lunatics...  The PvdA says it supports higher jail setences for the most worst crimes plus ofcourse the whole rehabilitation program as with the other parties for the same reasons.


Progressive parties: Expantion  is alright but only if all requirements are met and human rights are respected/guaranteed.





« Last Edit: 10-06-2010, 20:06:57 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline 508th PIR Hawkeye

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #72 on: 10-06-2010, 21:06:36 »
If PVV is going to be part of the goverment I'm going to Canada for sure  ;D
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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #73 on: 10-06-2010, 21:06:18 »
if geert wilders get to power we have war

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
« Reply #74 on: 10-06-2010, 21:06:27 »
The CDA won't join such a coalition, or atleast it would be highly unlikely. Plenty of prominent (former) CDA members made quite clear that they'd never accept such a party "that goes against nearly everything we stand for with our christian values".  Though, as I said, with a VVD+PVV+CDA coalition it might open the eyes of those voters to see that governing a country aint that issue and that there is no "magic wand" solution that will magically fix all of our problems. Thus The PVV could easily lose a lot of votes in the next parliamential elections.