Author Topic: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update  (Read 1205 times)

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« on: 05-05-2010, 12:05:10 »
Now we have an exciting Op. Totalize map. Let's give feedback to the developers of these fine works so we can help improve things or identify issues. Screenshots will be most useful.

Combat takes place mainly between fixed guns and tanks as it should be. As infantry you do a great service by being able to infiltrate the enemy lines and take out their fixed guns. Its maps like this that brings out my two minds on Legion's tank stop-go motion. Here, it works excellently, as it does in Goodwood with tanks stopping to fire at guns from firing range before moving in to mop up.... in Mersa Matru, El Alamein, Gazala and Siege of Tobruk among others though it cripples gameplay... Hard to tell which world is better - Tanks stopping to fire, or barreling in and winning the day by sheer numbers rather than range of guns and accuracy.

Aircrafts play a marginal role, although an important one with the FW190 clearing the sky where the flakvierling fails (Thank you Drawde for making them less deadly) and dropping bombs on tanks. However, if the rocketphoon could fire rockets, I can imagine things getting quite interesting for those stationary guns.

I got a CTD when a Tiger emerged from the brush after taking the nebelwer base outside the German uncap (as Brit). I didn't see the tank but I know what a tiger engine sounds like ingame. We were holding out against waves of infantry pouring from the 88 base on our side of the river, but far across the rail, some hanomags and a few shots from the PAK gun there.. then this tank comes into play and as soon as I'm sure it would fire, CTD! Maybe some versions of the Tiger have a bug we haven't discovered, or it was something at the same time from somewhere else?

I should really play with 64 bots to get a better perspective of infantry-tank coordination, but this map is really sweet now. Thank you remick. Not yet noted any real bot-stuck issues.. Will give those as I find them
« Last Edit: 05-05-2010, 12:05:29 by djinn »

Offline Drawde

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #1 on: 05-05-2010, 19:05:43 »
Tried this map a couple of times yesterday and the AI seems to work fairly well overall (certainly as good as some of the original 2.25 maps). One thing I noticed was that the Germans didn't seem to use their tanks much, relying on static defence all the time, so I'll try tweaking the strategies.ai file to get them to counter-attack once they start losing CPs.

The German static defences are challenging enough to deal with on their own, though - they're set up so that each base covers the one in front of it, so once the guns in one base have been finally dealt with, the attacking tanks roll in and get knocked out by the guns of the next base! This is the sort of situation where artillery is needed, but as yet the bots can't spot or fire the guns any distance.

Planes were very effective at bombing + strafing things, but the non-working Typhoon rockets are very noticeable. I'm going to have to sort these (and the P-51 + P47 rockets) out now there's full AI support for maps with these in. Not sure what's preventing the AI from using them, the rockets don't have the "180' rotation" problem that the bombs had.

BTW, I've now fixed the train bug - not only does the game no longer CTD when you enter it, but bots can drive it! (I wasn't sure if bots would be able to cope with a non-steerable vehicle...) I drove all the way to the end of the line with a bot sitting on the passenger position, got out, and the bot got into the driver's seat and headed back in the other direction.
(But why does it have "choo-choo" steam engine sounds? The WR360 was a diesel locomotive)

Since the jeep + train fix are fairly critical for this and other Normandy maps to be stable, I'll probably release another "interim" update of my AI minimod soon, once I've had more of a look at what might be causing the Mt. Olympus CTD.

Offline Remick04

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #2 on: 06-05-2010, 03:05:12 »
I've been fooling around with the strategy.ai on this map the most. I've been trying to get the Allied bots to spread out more when they advance instead of all choosing the same path and causing traffic jams. But it seems no amount of neighboring, waypoints, or flag temperatures seems to get them use the other paths available to them.

On the German side of the tracks, the bots seem to be in love with the Flak Battery flag. No matter how low I set the flags basic temperature or raise it elsewhere they still primarily spawn at that flag. I've got it now to a point where the Germans will at least use the tanks more. But between the Flak guns, Pak guns, Panzerfausts, FW190 bombs, Panthers, Tigers, and those bloody fences it’s rough for the allies... particularly once they start trying to cross the river.

Offline Raziel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 859
  • Bullet Magnet
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #3 on: 06-05-2010, 08:05:16 »
First of all congrats! It was epic spawning at Allied main base and most bots started manning tanks! And they were quite aggressive! Was really impressed!
Had a CTD as soon as I shot the Pak at Flak battery. Maybe I forgot to update something.

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #4 on: 06-05-2010, 15:05:54 »
I've noted two major issues...

1/ British do NOT counter-attack. I capped flags all the way up to the one across the river and almost got the one on that side, across the railroad. However, we were beat back by a fervent infantry counterattack supported by FW190, AT and dual purpose guns and at least two tanks... A tiger (which I never saw fire, but whose engine I could hear behind the brush) and a panther that actually crossed the river and engaged our tanks

Issue was, once all, but tthe factory was recapped, our guys simply engaged those they saw and no one gave a command to counter-attack..i.e. the commander

2/ One AT gun at the nebelwerfer bas faces away and for some reason, never rotates, even when under fire, even if manned.

EDIT: 3/ You can increase the frag count to 1000% and you still get like 400 vs 400 people no matter what? Which doesn't work for the Canucks trying to break through hefty defenses
« Last Edit: 07-05-2010, 11:05:24 by djinn »

Offline Remick04

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #5 on: 07-05-2010, 21:05:02 »
Try editing the Init.con file in the server.zip of the map. Most singleplayer maps use the 16 player ticket ratio even if it’s a 64 player map. And by default the ticket ratio for 16 players on Totalize is set to 50 for each team (since there is no 16 player size). If that’s the case just edit the numbers on the 'gameLogic.setDefaultNumberOfTicketsEx 16' lines. Team '1' is Germany and Team '2' is Canada. You can change it to whatever you want, (though I recommend the same ratio as what they have set up for the 64 player).... and enjoy :)

I do seem to be getting a new CTD with Totalize now that I have the German bots using the vehicles in their main more often. I'll have to check and see if there is an issue with one of the vehicles there, but I can't imagine there is.


Edit: Correction.... Co-op uses the 16 player ticket ratio, not singleplayer in general
« Last Edit: 08-05-2010, 06:05:14 by Remick04 »

Offline Drawde

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #6 on: 08-05-2010, 20:05:53 »
Had a CTD as soon as I shot the Pak at Flak battery. Maybe I forgot to update something.

Have you installed the latest version of my AI minimod? That fixes the Pak40 destruction CTD.

Offline Raziel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 859
  • Bullet Magnet
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #7 on: 09-05-2010, 19:05:40 »
@Drawde: Yes I did! I updated all the necessary files but still I got that CTD.

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #8 on: 10-05-2010, 17:05:30 »
This map is now feeling totally epic. Didn't play for more than 10minutes courtest of one of a number of CTDs. I actually saw one of my guys take the jeep and I was a tad tempted to blast him with a rifle nade, but I desisited.. maybe I shouldn't have

Tanks and trucks move seemlessly through the corridors of fences and hedgerow blasting away at the fixed guns. Planes get active a bit earlier, since most of them make it into the air this time around. And the Germans actually meet the Allied iron wall in the fields overlooking the factory... I met at least 2 infantry with the StuG there.

Will need to try and experience a longer game to figure out what else conspires in gameplay

Offline Zoologic

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4.141
  • In FH Since 0.67
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #9 on: 10-05-2010, 19:05:02 »
Played without CTD. I played as Germans. The allied team usually stuck at the first two flags. Vehicles stuck at fences, and the bots seems to love the Bedford too much over other tanks. However, very clumsy when handling it.

The Churchill is very sick, they pwn our ass down if we are not looking at it. My explosive pack couldn't scratch it and the bots are pretty clever on them. Overall, they handle tanks far better than before, thanks to Drawde's new 1.2 AI pack.

One source of CTD positively identified:
The locomotive!

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: Op. Totalize SP - Remick04's WinterHilf update
« Reply #10 on: 10-05-2010, 20:05:10 »
I managed to play a long game without CTD.

Ratios are still off i.e at 200% where most map would have their frag count in the 1000s, this map still had just 450 people a side


However, things went pretty quick. The hard part is crossing the bridge. The Germans can counter-attack every base now from the get-go. For instance, capping the factory, most invariably results in a counter-attack by the hanomag, sometimes with the Marder I, and some infantry in tow.

The German tanks are also alot more active, thankfully, not so much as to throw the balance out of whack - The static guns are bad enough - I once had a COD2 moment on the 88-flakvierling hill where a Tiger joined a counter-attack and was right there on the hill with me...

I heard the nebelwerfer firing at some point, a series of shots, but it generally is used pretty dull by the bots. Whereas it could be as much a killer as it was in FH1, this one fires intermittently in such a way that it has more effect as a terror weapon than a tactical weapon.

If I can somehow get across that bridge long enough to cap that double-88 base, I should be able to cause the assault to move inland

But there is also the issue where tanks move in more or less the same area with the North part being almost bare. They clearly fan out now, but enough to cross the bridge at different points so the tanks usually get slaughtered by the dual-88 base.


Love the view the nebelwerfer gets though, I suppressed that base with it once we capped the nebel's base. But it seems impossible to destroy the 88 gun from my elevation and so it relentlessly returns, firing at my men across thew bridge... :-(