Author Topic: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war  (Read 20355 times)

Offline Invincible

  • FH-Betatester
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 638
  • Armyyyyarrrrrr!
    • View Profile
    • Javelin Photos
Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« on: 23-04-2010, 00:04:20 »
The great and very original threat name says it all:
This threat is to discus and post pictures of World war II Vehicles,weapons and equipment used after the war.
Also Vehicles witch are made by a country and used against its previous owners.

To start with, Today I was reading about Syria using allot of World war II German vehicles during there war on Israel.


Quote
"As France increased it's sales of equipment to Israel in the 1950's it felt compelled to supply more useful equipment to the Syrians to maintain a balance between the two nations. To this end a number of reconditioned German vehicles were supplied in some numbers. These included PzKpfw IV Ausf H and a limited number of Stug IIIs and JadgPanzer IVs. However, as the Syrian moved to the left the French influence was replaced by that of the Soviets. This "new" Soviet equipment included initially numbers of T-34/85s which along with the PzIVH were involved in the 1964 "Winter War". This in turn resulted in the supply of T-54s to replace the T-34s.


By 1967 the Syrians fielded some 750 tanks and 585 APCs. At least one mechanised Brigade was formed using BTR-152s and two Armoured Brigades which Zaloga describes as "primarily" equipped with T-54 and T-55s. Churchill indicates an additional armoured brigade was transferred to the Golan Front on June 5th 1967. Zaloga provides a summary of the more unusual ex-German vehicles in Syrian service. It would seem that France supplied 40 reconditioned vehicles consisting of PzKpfw IV, Jagdpanzer IV and Stug IIIs. Later more PzKpfw IVs were purchased from Czechoslovakia and Spain. In his book, Tank Battles of the Middle East Wars Part One, are photographs of Syrian Jagdpanzer IVs (stated they had 6), Hummels (5), Stug III G (28) and Panzer IVs from France (28)."








Interesting Quote from a other board:
Quote
The last Pz.IV to be destroyed in action was killed by an Israeli Sherman mounting a French 'long 75mm gun' (itself a post-war derivative of the main gun of the wartime PzKw V Panther).


« Last Edit: 23-04-2010, 00:04:31 by Invincible »

 "If I advance, follow me. If I stop, urge me on. If I retreat, kill me."

Offline Flippy Warbear

  • Global Moderator
  • Masterspammer
  • *****
  • Posts: 6.042
  • Adequately docile
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used pre-war
« Reply #1 on: 23-04-2010, 00:04:06 »
Shouldnt it be "post-war" then?

Offline Invincible

  • FH-Betatester
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 638
  • Armyyyyarrrrrr!
    • View Profile
    • Javelin Photos
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used pre-war
« Reply #2 on: 23-04-2010, 00:04:58 »
Finnish  Pre-War Panzer IV's d "Nelonen":





Finnish  STUG III:









Swedish Köningstiger:


 "Swedish" SdKfz. 182 "King Tiger"



A Swedish delegation was sent to France in 1946, with the purpose to investigate and commission German WW2 AFVs. A visit took place in Versailles where a depot with Panther tanks was inspected. Most of them were meant to be scrapped, while others had been sold. The Swedish delegation was offered to choose between three Panther tanks. The French State reported that they were willing to give away the Panther, and so the one in best condition was chosen. (This Pz.Bef.Wg. Panther Ausf. A was then shipped to Sweden and tested until 1961 when it was given to the Panzermuseum Munster in Germany, where it is on display today). In the same time as the inspection of the Panther tank was made, selected Swedish officers followed a group of French officers to Normandy on October 4th 1946, looking for a Tiger. They traveled through Nantes, Evreux and Lisieur to the Vimontiere area. A totally burnt out King Tiger (of sPz.Abt. 503, 1. Kompanie) was found, but since Sweden wanted to perform AT-mine and firing trials upon it, this Tiger was overlooked. The French promised to continue the search for a suitable vehicle, not costing Sweden a dime. By the end of August of 1947, the military attaché in Paris claimed that a Tiger II has been found in good condition (no damage from fire). It was located in Gien, south of Paris.
Scandinavian Express was ordered to have the King Tiger transported to KAFT in Stockholm. On November 27th of 1947, the King Tiger was loaded off in Stockholm harbor. It was then being sent to the P4 regiment in Skövde. According to Inventory reports of P4 in December 1947, the King Tiger was there. As the workshop finally started to restore it a German egg-type handgrenade was found in the engine room. It had never detonated, presumably the tank had been quickly abandoned on the battlefield. The handgrenade was removed and blown up nearby in the workshop area. The engine was replaced, and the King Tiger was prepared for its first driving tests.



The restored King Tiger in the P4 regiments workshop area.

It was soon tested in the workshop area, by the impressed workers. During these early tests, the arm holding the idler wheel was damaged as one in the group steered to roughly in sand outside the workshop. It was quickly fixed, but now people had to be more careful as the program was changed. The transport to PcK in Karlsborg (testing area) was delayed due to this accident. Between September 24th and September 29th 1948, the King Tiger was to be moved from P4 regt. to PcK in Karlsborg, on rail to the village of Finneröja and there from on road to PcK. This was never realized due to the accident with the idler wheel arm that was broken earlier. Then it became a towing/recovery transport instead. A M26 "Dragon Wagon" truck was then needed. On November 11th 1948, it was suggested to remove the 88mm KwK43 L/71 before firing trials were made on the King Tiger. Eventually, there were possibilities in the future to buy 88mm ammo, enabling Sweden to perform tests with this potent weapon as well. The transport took place between November 10th and November 15th 1948. It should be seen as one of the toughest road transports ever made in the country of Sweden, and only the exact planning and performance of the people involved enabled the transport to be realized. Just outside the entrance road to PcK, it was decided to make a shortcut right through the woody area, instead of cornering a 120-degree crossroad, which most probably had totally ruined the road. The damage made to the woods cost them only 30:- SEK, while a 120 degree cornering on paved road would have caused a lot more material damage and expenses. The total cost of the transport was estimated to about 10.000:- SEK. The total weight of the transport was 160 tons, some 1.700hp was involved and 6.000 liters of gasoline were used up. The length of the transport totaled 60km, and the involved vehicles were:

1 x M4 Sherman (w/o turret)
1 x M26 Dragon Wagon (truck only)
1 x Terrängdragbil (Tgb) m/46
1 x 10-ton Recovery vehicle
1 x Fuel truck
2 x Automobiles for personnel
4 x Motorcycles


On the way to PcK in Karlsborg, November 1948.
Photo courtesy of SPHF.



In mid-April of 1949, it was decided that firing trials were to be made on the King Tiger and a Sherman tank with various weapons and mines. During November and December of 1949, various tests were made with rocket and grenade launchers, and the new Swedish Pvkv m/43 tank destroyer tried its 75mm gun on both the King Tiger and Sherman tanks. It is said that after the tests were finalized, the remains of the King Tiger could have been loaded in the back seat of an old VW "Bug". This is partially true, it was really shot up far beyond repair. The hull was scrapped, while the turret was sent to the exercise field at Kråk, where it was shot up during various training missions. The 88mm KwK43 L/71 was kept in a depot at PcK. It was later sent to Bofors in Karlskoga, where it remained until late 1980's. It was scrapped approx. 14 days before staff personnel from the Swedish Armour Historical Society (SPHF) asked about it. Had they have been 3 weeks earlier, this gun could eventually have been on display in the Swedish Armor Museum at Axvall today.


What German unit did the Swedish "King Tiger" belong to originally?

Mr. Christer Baadstöe has put down a lot of work in tracking down what unit "our" King Tiger originally belonged to. The first 5 series produced King Tigers Fgst. # 280001-05 were delivered to PanzerKompanie Funklenk 316 on March 14th of 1944. sPz.Abt. 503, 1. Kompanie received 12 King Tigers Fgst. # 280023-35 on June 12th of 1944. sPz. Abt. 503, 3. Kompanie received a total of 14 King Tigers on July 27th and July 29th of 1944. The "Swedish" King Tiger is an early type with Porsche turret. It had a one piece monobloc gun tube, binocular "Turmzeilfernrohr 9b/1" sighting telescope, armored covers over the wading equipment, odd exhaust pipes (probably field conversion), the "S2" marking remains a mystery. My personal guess is that it was built in February 1944. Mr. Christer Baadstöe were helped by Mr. Wolfgang Schneider, and is now 99% sure that the "Swedish" King Tiger was vehicle #12 of PanzerKompanie Funklenk 316.

Swedish Vehicle evaluations:





Interesting picture, witch I really would like know more about:



 "If I advance, follow me. If I stop, urge me on. If I retreat, kill me."

Offline Timmay9/11

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Toff Opic
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #3 on: 23-04-2010, 00:04:43 »
the last picture is a real torture to watch at...  :'(
There is only one thing I’m afraid of,  Nazi Zombies!!!
And remember Kids, never say these words on a nazi graveyard
ia ia cthulhu fhtagn ia ia nazi zombie fhtang

Offline Wilhelm

  • FH-Betatester
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
  • Betatester
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #4 on: 23-04-2010, 01:04:20 »
the last picture is a real torture to watch at...  :'(

That picture was taken in 2008!  

I would gladly invest time and money and take one of those wrecks...

Where did you find that picture, Invincible?

Offline silian

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 502
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #5 on: 23-04-2010, 01:04:39 »
Bulgarian army Panzer IV's, these were dug in along the border with Turkey during the cold war. On the orders of the Bulgarian MOD they were recovered, IIRC something like seventeen AFVs in total mainly Panzer IV Ausf.G/H/J plus a couple of StuG IIIG's and a Jagdpanzer IV.

Offline [130.Pz]S.Lainer

  • FH-Betatester
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.932
    • View Profile
    • 130th
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #6 on: 23-04-2010, 08:04:00 »
  Wow looks like everything but the gun and the shell must have been gutted.  Still with that many panzer 4's a small production run of running gear (tracks/wheels) would be a nice investment for some rich reanactor types.  Slap in a readily available current engine and you have a nice gaggle of PIV's.
http://www.bfewaw.com/campaigns/waw24/promo/campaign/waw24banner1.png
The purpose of this deployment was to "annoy and defy the United States ... on her with Bofors 40 mm guns from a range of 650

Offline Die Happy

  • FH-Betatester
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.757
  • Live Long & Die Happy
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #7 on: 23-04-2010, 08:04:10 »
the Jagdpanzer 38(t) a.k.a. "Hetzer"  served in the swiss army until 1970 with only few changes to the tank:
- added muzzle break
- removed remote MG and resplaced by optics
- commander and loader changed position to increase ergonomic
- gasoline engine was exchange with diesel engine.

Live Long & Die Happy

Offline siben

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4.125
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #8 on: 23-04-2010, 10:04:37 »
In the first post, your third picture is a JagdPanzer Kanone, build in 1965 by the west german army after they where aloud to use tanks and such again. It not not WW2 at all. It uses A 90mm Canon. Just to let you know that it should not be in this tread :)

Now, lets see. I have some Bulgaria pics, not many tough. A real shame to see.



Now when i saw this is was even more sad... Finnish army shooting range.....

Shame on you guys, seriously, how could you do that???


I have some more pics of shermans and grayhounds and many more taken out in Iraq, but on a different pc, will post them in the next few days probably.

Offline Battlefieldfan45 (CroPanzer)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.518
  • Gebalte? Anyone?
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #9 on: 23-04-2010, 10:04:46 »

This sherman was used by the Croatian army during the Yugoslav wars (1990-1995)
The thing behind is an M36 also used by us ;)
« Last Edit: 23-04-2010, 10:04:46 by Battlefieldfan45 »

 
Playing WoT with ingame nick: CroPanzer

Offline Fuchs

  • No lollygagging
  • FH-Betatester
  • Masterspammer
  • ***
  • Posts: 6.605
  • A griffin! A griffin!
    • View Profile
    • Traction Wars - WWII Free to Play Game
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #10 on: 23-04-2010, 10:04:39 »
Sorry Siben but that is something on the base of a Panzer IV, look and count the road wheels.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline silian

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 502
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #11 on: 23-04-2010, 11:04:46 »
It's a Jagdpanzer IV.

the Jagdpanzer 38(t) a.k.a. "Hetzer"  served in the swiss army until 1970 with only few changes to the tank:
- added muzzle break
- removed remote MG and resplaced by optics
- commander and loader changed position to increase ergonomic
- gasoline engine was exchange with diesel engine.

These were Czech ST-I's, built post war.

Offline siben

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4.125
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #12 on: 23-04-2010, 11:04:09 »
Yes, i know now, i was way confused because i did not know there was a shortbarreled one. I do now :)

Offline Invincible

  • FH-Betatester
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 638
  • Armyyyyarrrrrr!
    • View Profile
    • Javelin Photos
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #13 on: 23-04-2010, 11:04:01 »

Relic: A rusting German World War II Panzer IV tank is half-buried in the ground on Bulgaria's southern border.

Bulgarian Stug's:






Another one from Siben's serie:






 "If I advance, follow me. If I stop, urge me on. If I retreat, kill me."

Offline Battlefieldfan45 (CroPanzer)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.518
  • Gebalte? Anyone?
    • View Profile
Re: Beutepanzers and WWII weapons used post-war
« Reply #14 on: 23-04-2010, 11:04:03 »
Thats...just...not...right!!
Post some happy panzers!
These make me sad  :'(

 
Playing WoT with ingame nick: CroPanzer