Author Topic: Drawde's mod: Prevailant issues to consider prior to release  (Read 1240 times)

Offline djinn

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I note that the next release might not be too far off with major issues in Goodwood facing some progress...

Just thought I would bullet some of the major issues to gameplay you might want to look into before the release:

Tanks using 2.25 logic... I think tanks need to be completely reverted to 2.2 logic. Legion's tank logic to make tanks fire, move and fire has a few nice times, but it completely cripples gameplay in some maps like Mersa Matru, Gazala and Alamein. Once tanks can see action ahead, they are likely to just stand and idle for the rest of the game. Drawde's range and salvo selection should remain, but the basic logic of tank motion needs to be completely reverted to 2.2 logic to make the game fully play-able in SP. Otherwise, there will always be a few maps that work and many that don't


Artillery dealing with Infantry... I still haven't seen a clear sign of artillry firing HE at infantry. In Drawde's 1.0 patch, mortar fired at armor but only fired at infantry once in PHL... Field artillery clearly fire at only tanks in Drawde's 1.1 with the 25pounder in Seige of Tobruk only engaging armor once the axis forces get to the main base. As infantry, it clearly doesn't see you or consider firing at you.

Vehicle Camping values... another debilitating issue introduced with Fh2.25. Although it works wonders for mgs and AT guns, it seems neccesary to restore camp-values to that of 2.2 to avoid the gameplay grinding to a halt thanks to bots occupying all vehicles at the wrong end or finding themselves in infatry-cap zones with vehicles and never dismounting. If this value can be separated from mobile vehicles to stationaries that will be even better.. but is non-essential to making the game work

Luttich CTD... nuff said


thanks Drawde, for all the changes you've made to restore FH2 to its SP-fun factor... And then going ahead and bringing in the air artillery :-)
« Last Edit: 18-04-2010, 11:04:15 by djinn »

Offline Drawde

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I hope I'll be able to fix some of these issues at least partly (vehicle camping is already fixed, more or less):

Tank logic: I think this is mostly map pathfinding-related. However, it might also be affected by the .ai behaviour scripts in the AI folder - comparing the 2.2 ones to 2.25 might be worthwhile (see my request below)

Artillery firing at infantry - Not sure about this, I haven't given field artillery much attention so far, since it appears to be impossible to get bots to fire them at long range (whether via the spotting system or via a raised viewpoint) and most artillery guns aren't placed in a position where they get the chance to fire at many short-range targets. I'll have another look at them sooner or later, though. I -have- managed to get the Nebelwerfer to work, though - there was a typo error in the data files which prevented the AI from firing it. I've seen (and heard!) it on Goodwood several times.

The AI can now aim and fire all mortars (there was a bug with the British mortar in 1.1 preventing it from firing) and, in theory at least, should proritise infantry targets.

Vehicle camping: Improved in the current version, bots can now exit from or switch vehicle crew positions. Eventually I'm going to look at getting APCs and trucks to transport troops as they do in vBF2.
Bots will still permanently camp static weapons (which now have a separate AI behaviour group) other than deployables and the fairly useless Bren AA; I don't think this too much of an issue (purely IMO) as it means most guns in strategic positions are permanently manned, with no chance of the bots getting bored and wandering off. And unlike in BF1942, human players can take over from the bots at any time.

Luttich CTD: currently working on this (when I get the chance to); so far I've determined that it's almost certainly caused by a hand weapon, but not the bazooka or Panzerschreck.


A request: If anyone here has FH2.2 installed on their PC, could they upload the .ai files in the \ai folder so I could have a look at them? I'd like to compare them to the FH2.25 files to see what's changed (and see if it's possible to improve the tank behaviour, in particular) but don't want to attempt uninstalling FH2 and reinstalling it again just to get the 2.2 files.

Offline djinn

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Will try and revert my Fh2 to 2.2.... want to try your mod on that anyhow... Where do I load the files and where are they located in the game directory?


Please, please, please see what can be done about artillery. Whatever will make mortar prioritize infantry should work too for howitzers. Currently, mortar doesn't prioritize infantry... That fixed and adapted for howtizer will solve all its ills. 15feets is good enough in most maps - Howitzers will be deadly for anyone who comes too close to the main base and for some open maps, as long as you give it an insane firing range, it should do wonders


Did wonders in Fh1, and that game's AI was pure shit otherwise

Offline cannonfodder

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Here ya go boss...I reinstalled 2.2 on my other PC.

One other issue that hasn't been mentioned (I think) is the bots not firing the Cromwells MG. They look for a target, but the gun always seems to be at the limit of it's travel, i.e. it's never pointing forwards, always left/right/up/down (even when there's a target right in front of it), and it never fires.

Offline djinn

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Didn't even know about that - I did note that the Cromwell had an uncanny habit of being the worst Tk bot-tank on the battlefield

Also, it seems the German binocs have a bugged spotting system. With British binocs, you can spot enemy units and use arty to fire on them, with German binocs, you spot, then as soon as you switch to arty, it loses the spot. Is this just me or has someone else noted this?

2 small flies... the 88 and hanomag-mounted mg34 (German APC with mg34) have the sound issue the 2pdr had. you hear an intermittent shot sound between 88 shots and a continual firing even when the mg34 takes a break.. probably, the same issue

A small request: Can you get the 222 to use its guns. Especially on infantry. The Marmon herington and 222 are supposed to be armored cars, which by definition means they should be infantry-hunters. Yet, they tend to fire only at tanks and seldom at infantry. If possible, please get the 222 to use its mg on explosed infantry and only use cannon on concealed infantry in the same way an infantryman will toss nades. Also the 222 should be able to engange aircraft.
« Last Edit: 19-04-2010, 22:04:04 by djinn »

Offline Drawde

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Thanks for posting the 2.2 AI files... I'll have a look at those later.

Also thanks for mentioning the Cromwell hull MG bug, I hadn't noticed this before, but I had a look at the AI files and found the reason for both this tank and the Churchill + Sherman's hull MGs not working (the AI gunner's viewpoint is rotated 180 degrees, and shoudn't be); all are fixed now. All the German tanks have (or should have) working hull MGs already, as do all variants of the Stuart.
I still haven't managed to get the rear MGs on the 251 halftrack working, though...

Haven't noticed the German binocular bug myself (tested it after reading your post just to be sure) but will keep an eye out for it.

I also noticed the 88 sound loop a while ago, think it's fixed now (same cause as the 2pdr sound loop), not sure about the MG34.

The 222 and M-H armoured cars should, in theory (i.e. if they do what the AI data files tell them to), attack infantry + light vehicles in preference to tanks, and should also be able to fire at low-flying aircraft. Not sure if they do, though, but the new armour system should help with this.

Tanks + vehicles seem very reluctant to use co-ax MGs if they have HE shells (those with only AP are fine) despite my giving the co-ax MGs a much higher target strength vs. infantry at short ranges. But with the new armour/target priority modifications, they're much better at picking the right shell type (i.e HE) vs. infantry and emplaced guns!

Offline djinn

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I think them firing only HE at infantry is fine, the hull mg will make up for the deficiency. Besides, the Firefly which has both HE and no coax mg uses only coax mg, so that balances things.

I do wonder if it will be too deadly for the North African Sherman to also use HE as its Normandy counterpart does - The Allies in NA don't have an HE firing tank.. not sure about the grant either
« Last Edit: 24-04-2010, 12:04:07 by djinn »

Offline djinn

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About the mobile AT guns. Sadly, its rare for them to be tactical in some instances since bots don't know how to rotate them well without moving them much. In some cases, you do get a good m3a1 kill by the Pak 40 guarding Goodwood's center base. But more often you get it staring literally into space and unable to respond when I come firing at from the rear.


I wont like AT guns moving all over the place again, but it will be nice if bots would be able to rotate them freely without acting like vegetables most of the time. Even in Mersa Matru, where the British guns are perfectly positioned, they are unable to fire well if the tank moves off its cannons traverse i.e they don't know how to swivel the gun itself around to keep aim.

It's really not a big issue at all... might not be even worth it for this release, unless its not difficult to edit.

Also, do infantry with rifles and smg attack the exposed AT gunner? Not seen it in the same fashion infantry attacked the exposed positions on halfttrucks






Offline cannonfodder

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Could always change them to the static versions...there's no point having mobile guns that aren't.

Anyway, I don't see the problem with the bots using the mobile guns. The only thing I don't like is the occasional bot taking 10 minutes to wheel one across the map, asides from that it's all good.

Offline djinn

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I think Drawde's decision was best if tweaked well. Most mobile guns are well positioned to defend a sector, allowing bots to use them for just that rather than chasing tanks or such and removing them from their position as well as camping them and being lost to any tactical use and at the same time, allowing the human player to redefine the battlefield by being able to redeploy them

I just wish the bots would be able to TOTALLY cover their sector by being able to swvel then in complete 360 and yet not moving them away from that tactical position, or any onther that I redeploy them to.. sentry behavior, basically

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Drawde's mod: Prevailant issues to consider prior to release
« Reply #10 on: 24-04-2010, 13:04:37 »
...allowing the human player to redefine the battlefield by being able to redeploy them...
Yeah, I've done that a few times, usually out of frustration at bots sitting there doing nothing... :)

Quote
...I just wish the bots would be able to TOTALLY cover their sector by being able to swvel then in complete 360 and yet not moving them away from that tactical position, or any onther that I redeploy them to.. sentry behavior, basically...
It'd be nice, but it won't happen because the mobile guns won't turn unless they're moving forwards or backwards.

One possible solution could be reduce the speed to an extremely slow crawl, so they can "swivel" the gun, but can't travel too far... :-\

Offline djinn

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Re: Drawde's mod: Prevailant issues to consider prior to release
« Reply #11 on: 24-04-2010, 14:04:41 »
One possible solution could be reduce the speed to an extremely slow crawl, so they can "swivel" the gun, but can't travel too far... :-\

Not a bad possibility at all.... Drawde?