Author Topic: Mareth Line 64  (Read 14790 times)

Offline Toddel

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Mareth Line 64
« on: 29-03-2009, 11:03:30 »
"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #1 on: 06-05-2009, 01:05:07 »
I really quite like the change that 2.15 caused on this map.  All that new stuff: the tiger, pak 40s, pz3Ns, push mode etc.  Having said that, I did feel that the removal of the Italian kits from the spawn menu was a bit sad.

All the talk in the run up to the patch was about how the Tiger would dominate the map, with the betatester's comments about the beaufighter going unheaded.  Oh how they were right.  There is no point shooting it down, because its back up again in less than a minute (50 second spawn time).  And you can't hide the tiger from it without effectivly disabling it (from a presence perspective).  Given the opportunity; I'd increase the spawn time of figters to 60 seconds, of bombers to 2 mins - which might also make pilots land instead of just bailing and waiting for a respawn.

I'd also increase the push mode to include all of the flags.  There would be a second line of attact going to Toujane, then to Matmata and the bunker, then from both to the Gap.  You'd need both the Gap and Mareth to get the Gabes flags.  The purpose of this would be to mainly stop sneak attacks made using the piper, and it follows the route that is generally taken by players anyway.

And I would like to know what happened to the Italian kits.  I know their tanks went to bring the number of texture sheets down, but I wasn't aware that this also was the case with the kits as well.  I was long looking forward to going sniping around the bunker with a carcano carbine, and I miss defending gabes with the beretta.

Other than that, I think this is another brilliant map.  Lots of space for some intresting battles using all the arms, but where none can claim to be dominant.

Offline sheikyerbouti

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #2 on: 06-05-2009, 01:05:36 »
Good suggestion about longer bomber spawns. Mareth is getting boring because the plane whores are doing their usual thing and just making a beeline for the city, dropping bombs on Tiger spawn, then back to base for a reload.

 Maybe it would help if the Tiger spawned elsewhere, or if it had better AA positions around its' spawnpoint.
The Flak88 in Gabes doesn't help much due to its location and the Vierling38 while it is a beast, has no chance of hitting any planes until they have passed over the airfield.

The Tiger in my opinion, spawns in the wrong place anyways. I have this fantasy of it spawning at Teqaba gap so that it becomes less vulnerable to planewhores, is less susceptible to TK mines, and also has more than one way to leave its' base. (there is only one way out of Gabes, so it is far too easy to just mine the main road thus blocking all armour)

 One other thing that bugs me about Mareth is: Why can't we drive the Sahariana as an Allied soldier?
The Sahariana was employed by both the Axis and Allied powers due to its' exceptional desert capabilities and i don't understand why that fact isn't reflected in game..
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Offline luftwaffe.be

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #3 on: 07-05-2009, 16:05:34 »
currently allies always win becouse of the forward spawn + huge armor and air superority + the fact that half the german team must move out to cap the empty flags.

The empty flags seem a bit ... unlogical at this map. It would be more logical if axis got these flags from the start, so allies need to push trough. It seems to me that the flags where put blanck in the original mapsetup, inorder to let allies get a chance to get trough the line. However, since allies now spawn closer and have more bridges to cross, I think they no longer need this previlage, and the flags should go to axis so they can prepair a decent defence

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #4 on: 07-05-2009, 20:05:12 »
One other thing that bugs me about Mareth is: Why can't we drive the Sahariana as an Allied soldier?
The Sahariana was employed by both the Axis and Allied powers due to its' exceptional desert capabilities and i don't understand why that fact isn't reflected in game..
I agree with most of the stuff you said but want to comment on this,
I think the Sahariana is locked for allies because it's like an armoured car (sdkfz 222, marmon-herrington) because it got a very big Solothurn and multiple MG's. Solothurn is like a real cannon if you ask me.
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Offline Lobo

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #5 on: 07-05-2009, 23:05:16 »
currently allies always win becouse...

The map spawns a shinny tiger, at least this was the reason time ago. It's hard to win a map if half your team is doing something stupid.

Let us know if now the tiger has lost its magnet factor to know if the map really has a balance issue or has not solution unless we remove it  ::)

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #6 on: 08-05-2009, 00:05:09 »
Let us know if now the tiger has lost its magnet factor to know if the map really has a balance issue or has not solution unless we remove it  ::)
Much of the imbalence is due a ton of Brit tanks at the beggining of the round facing a defensive line that could do with more Paks.  All the tanks are there of course to help against the tiger, but that doesn't appear for at least 7-8 minutes in (and even then it gets bombed 4 times out of 5 before leaving Gabes).

Removing the Tiger would be stupid.  All your teams hard work for nothing.  Currently, I think that the Brits could loose one or two starting tanks, and the germans could gain an extra starting Pz3J.  Prehaps you could put some of the starting brit tanks on a dummy flag that spawns them when the Tiger does.  I also think that the grey flags should start off German as well.  The most important thing of course would be to massivly up the spawn time of the Beaufighter.

To sum up:
-No grey flags at start
-Less Brit tanks at start
-Some more Paks
-Long spawn time on the beaufighter.

Offline sheikyerbouti

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #7 on: 08-05-2009, 00:05:56 »
 I think the front line is ok as is but the map does have some issues.

 1) The Beaufighter spawns too often and reloads too quickly.
 2) The Tiger in Africa was prey to the CHURCHILL and 6 pounders, not to bloody airplanes. In fact, aerial sorties in North Africa were subject to weather restrictions that hampered regular sorties by both the Axis and Allied powers. In essence, Mareth 64 is far too reliant on airpower, more so than any historical accounts will vouch for.
 3) The flak defence in Gabes allows for unopposed plane rape of the tank spawn area and certainly deserves better tweaking.
 4) Move the Tiger elsewhere please, it is too vulnerable to grief actions by players in its' current location.


 I will confess right now to tk'ing bastards who jack the Tiger when someone else was first in line. Probably every second time I play Mareth 64, I have to make such threats and from time to time, I will ensure that hijacker never makes it past the Sahariana or at the very latest, they will not make it through the front entrance to Gabes.

Until the Tiger is more widely available in other maps, we will have to constantly deal with the grief tactics most tank and plane whores employ and I for one, would appreciate some map tweaks to put those griefer bitches in their place.
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Offline Lobo

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #8 on: 08-05-2009, 00:05:58 »
I will try to play the map to get a first hand experience of those issues in this stage and I can agree with some of those suggestions like the beaufighter spawn time, and maybe the grey flags but...let's see, the frontline (mareth and toujane) has: 4 pak 40's, 1 flak 18 and 1 marder, all of them heavy hitters...if axis can't put a fight with this is because too many axis players are doing nothing in the tiger spawn like it was the 2001 monolyte.

And sheik, the vierling is the most brutal AA ingame and is right in the airfield, don't tell me allied planes can rape Gabes with no oposition, c'mon (+the village flak18)

Offline sheikyerbouti

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #9 on: 08-05-2009, 01:05:35 »
And sheik, the vierling is the most brutal AA ingame and is right in the airfield, don't tell me allied planes can rape Gabes with no oposition, c'mon (+the village flak18)
( Please note that I edited your quote for brevity.)

 There are particular approaches the flyboys take that make the airfield Vierling only effective after the Beaufighter has dropped its bombs. The village Flak18 also has a very obstructed line of fire thus rendering it impotent in its main role.


 Off to watch the hockey game so I cannot reply until much later,
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Offline Nerdsturm

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #10 on: 08-05-2009, 01:05:36 »
I will try to play the map to get a first hand experience of those issues in this stage and I can agree with some of those suggestions like the beaufighter spawn time, and maybe the grey flags but...let's see, the frontline (mareth and toujane) has: 4 pak 40's, 1 flak 18 and 1 marder, all of them heavy hitters...if axis can't put a fight with this is because too many axis players are doing nothing in the tiger spawn like it was the 2001 monolyte.

I agree that the front lines have plenty of AT guns for the current number of allied tanks, especially since the 88 is in such a great position. In my experience all these AT guns end up making things a lot harder for the tiger too, since its first destination is usually back to Mareth if it can get out of Gabes and avoid the Beaufighter.

Offline luftwaffe.be

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #11 on: 08-05-2009, 17:05:32 »
Quote
currently allies always win becouse...


The map spawns a shinny tiger, at least this was the reason time ago. It's hard to win a map if half your team is doing something stupid.

Let us know if now the tiger has lost its magnet factor to know if the map really has a balance issue or has not solution unless we remove it 

Yes lobo this was the case the first week the map came out, but the situation has been normalised on publics regarding this matter (or at least the times I played the map).

Hence, I've seen a situation where nobody took the tiger, and it was rotting in the town.

Quote
-No grey flags at start

Agree

Quote
-Less Brit tanks at start

I don't entrirely agree. maybe one sherman less and a grant more, but it is sowhat balanced. Note that if axis get all the flags, axis also get more tanks from the start, therefore, it is fine as it is.

Quote
-Some more Paks

I don't agree. PAK's do get spammed by artillery or aircraft all the time, but this counts for evry map. fine as it is.

Quote
-Long spawn time on the beaufighter.

sowhat agree. It does respawn rather fast, but then again the game is more action driven then FH1.maybe a few more seconds (10 ? )but nothing to drastic.

Offline Lobo

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #12 on: 08-05-2009, 23:05:15 »
well, I played a round at hslan this evening, 64 players, nice round and british won 46-0, heavy fight for mareth and toujane, tegaba sometimes, this doesn't show a bad balance, quite the oposite

and germans were sloppy to take the grey flags and start the bleed, so hmmm, no, I don't believe is a good idea to change the initial flags layout.

I will play more rounds to get a better overview of balance but maybe it needs less radical changes: slight adjustement of tickets, beau respawn time and so on

Offline hslan.Faust

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #13 on: 09-05-2009, 00:05:11 »
well, as usual you played it from the allied perspective.

and friday night is NOT the most representative time.
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Offline Lobo

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Re: Mareth Line 64
« Reply #14 on: 09-05-2009, 00:05:42 »
Must we balance the map for a special day and hour, sir, saturday 5 o'clock perhaps?, we can have a tea.

I played the side choosen by the server