Author Topic: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1  (Read 8552 times)

Offline CBCRonin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #45 on: 22-03-2010, 02:03:10 »
I remember the bots manning the laffy in the original Normandy release, but I think they stopped after the patch (not due to your mod).

The Bots  have always loved using the 42 in the middle of the town, mounted on the short wall near the sheds/house. I can't say I have seen them using it while using your tweak, but I did hear one firing from that location (so it was either being used or the German APC had pulled up near there).

 

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #46 on: 22-03-2010, 09:03:17 »
Mg positions since 2.25 have been nerfed. Bots suddenly LOVE the mg15 and wont get off for showers, but they seldom used the mg34 and never used the mg42, which like you said was the most favored in 2.2 - The bots still love the mg15 in Drawde's patch, but about 85% of their original use, mg34s are next, about 20 - 40% chance of these being manned. Mg42 are used about 15 - 30% of the time. I specifically played maps like Point du Hoc and Purple Heart lane to see...

In 2.2, bots will man it and replace downed gunners to keep them firing no matter what - For some reason, this was changed in 2.25 at par with the 'new issues fixed=new problems created' policy.

I suggested earlier in this thread, I believe that Drawde (and the Singleplayer dev team) go back to 2.0 to use the variables used for vehicle use as bots could man mobile vehicles and abondon them when neccesary. 2.2 should be the point of reference for mg42 and this could be replicated for all other mgs from british to Italian to German....

The real new work should be on balancing which vehicles are prefered over others and HOW they are used, and that's already half done thanks to inroads started by Legion. What really should be going on is fine-tuning, but it seems that people don't have a point of reference as to what works and what doesn't so we are creating as many new issues in modding this thing as we improve other aspects. I have to give it to Bizness, bots were simplistic, but they used everything and averegely well - Battles could move from start to finish. Now, many maps are unplayable

If this is indeed an independent project (sp) from the rest of the mod, then i think change-logging needs to play a larger role than it seems to play now

Sorry if I sound harsh with this, but it just gets frustrating when you see an issue and hope its fixed in the next version only to find out after 6months to a year of waiting that Yes, it IS fixed, but suddenly a new issue has arisen from something that worked fine in the past - And with the older maps from 2.0 getting no attention whatsoever, its like marking-time rather than moving foward
« Last Edit: 22-03-2010, 09:03:57 by djinn »

Offline CBCRonin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #47 on: 22-03-2010, 20:03:08 »
I think their capability is definitely a map related issue, as the bots did stop using the one on PDH (won't touch it at all now).... but they manned the 42 consistently and repeatedly on Alam Halfa last night.

Haven't seen them touch the static mounted British MG or the Bren AA, but they do use the one on the jeep and in UCs.
---------------------------------
As Alam Halfa has so few vehicles and options to mount for the Axis bots, their preference for the ones that do exist (when all flags are held and within range) might be increasing their effectiveness for that map.

 

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #48 on: 23-03-2010, 11:03:54 »
Mg42 in Alam halfa? I must see that!

And no, although conditions change based on the layout of the map, the logic governing the vehicle, here weapon use is within the weapon files itself. A robuste logic system and preference system will make any particular weapon assume a similar role irrespective of map type

In a map where the bots see enemy units from way off, they are certain to use stationary weapons differently from in maps where the enemy 'turns the corner' to be noticed. A good example of this is in the case of the mortar which enjoys(enjoyed) perfect use in Alamein, no use in some other maps and some degree of use in others.

For instance, the mg34 defending the bridge on PHL is used more often now than the mg42 since it is closer to their spawn area and their logic for that base is to be defensive versus the more-offensive bots that spawn at the mg42 position.



Offline Drawde

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #49 on: 23-03-2010, 16:03:13 »
Didn't know about the non-Lafette MG42 in Luttich, I've occasionally seen MG42 kills when playing as Allied and wondered what was going on (couldn't be a kit picked up from a dead German MG gunner, as bots don't pick up kits)! Still no progress with getting bots to use the Lafette, I've tried disabling the "use no pathfinding" setting but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Regarding Djinn's earlier post, I really should mention that I'm not in any way involved with or in communication with the "official" FH2 dev team, and I have no idea how many developers (if any) are working on SP issues, and how much progress they've made on fixing any of the issues I've tried to fix. I'm just trying to do as much as I can to fix the AI using my limited knowledge + experience.

I might try and look into using the FH2.2 AI files, but since I'd never played FH2 before 2.25, I'd have to do a complete reinstall of FH2. In theory, it should be possible to get the AI to behave like 2.2 just by using the same data values for AI parameters, not necessarily the original files.

Quote
How to stop Commander Spam? - Answer, One of the uncapable flags in the map was 2-way neighbored. The rule for neighboring uncapable flags is you 1 way neighbor the other flag to the uncap. It's useful to remember, "My neighbor comes to me" when neighboring SA.
- http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13677

Thanks for spotting this! I haven't really looked into modding map scripts before now, but it looks like the commander spam issue should be easily fixed. I've spotted a few other map issues which might be fixable, and have made a new thread for this.

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #50 on: 23-03-2010, 16:03:48 »
I was mentioning the general works of all those I know who have anything to do with AI improvement.

Thanks for the feeback. Any solution to the Luttich crash? Any update to 1.1?

Regarding earlier variables in 2.0, I think the best variable balance is in 2.2. According to what you said, the same variable that makes bots bail stationary weapons affects bots' use of mobile vehicles. I''d hate to think that the same fix to make bots bail cars and jeeps more will cause bots to bail mgs and such at the same rate. That said, yes, FH2 ver. 2.2 definitely had the best balance in that variable since bots DID use mgs effectively, but did not camp on vehicles... Other values for mg42 will just have to be replicated for all mgs is all as these were still effectively used while being able to bail them... It might involve reverting all stationary mgs to not being seen as a defensive weapon like the AT gunsreplicated for all mgs is all
« Last Edit: 23-03-2010, 16:03:15 by djinn »

Offline Drawde

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #51 on: 23-03-2010, 17:03:13 »
I''d hate to think that the same fix to make bots bail cars and jeeps more will cause bots to bail mgs and such at the same rate.

This is something I've been working on and which will hopefully be in the next release of the AI minimod. I've added a new AI behaviour category "FixedGun" which is basically the same as "Fixed" but has an 0% chance of bailing/leaving the object, and have assigned this to all static guns and MGs other than deployable ones and the Bren AA. So far, it seems to work quite well.

I'm also going to look at the AI data for vanilla BF2's APCs + trucks to see if I can get the FH2 transport vehicles to work the same way. Getting these to work would give infantry a chance on large open maps like El Alamein.

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #52 on: 23-03-2010, 18:03:45 »
woohoo! Excellent thinking Drawde. If bots never bailed from AT guns and mgs, but did for mobile vehicles the gameplay will really be different. And to think you still don't want to take credit for your modding skills... Modesty, sir - is for people like myself who suck





Offline matthewfarenheit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Vagabond
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #53 on: 24-03-2010, 05:03:23 »
I have tested this mini-mod on Goodwood and the moment I try to get on a Cromwell, the game crashes.

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #54 on: 24-03-2010, 08:03:39 »
That is weird - It cannot be the same issue because the bots always use the Cromwell even getting KT kills from time to time with it as well as quite a few TKs... excuse my use of a punn. This is certainly a new one that needs to investigated.

I'm certain the known issue is from the map since all vehicles have been completely re-examined and recoded more than once - This is not to say, it isn't somehow vehicle-triggered, but if that were so, then we might be looking at something as insane as Op. Cobra's crash issue which Toddel described as being 'As random as a Panther firing with a Sherman reloading at the same time while a scout occupies its third seat'


I think its time to launch operation Medic. Basically, this would be a coop game setup on a server and played at a particular time by COOP/SP fans to find the problem by all being on the battlefield. The catch it, half of either team should be these human players with instructions to more of spur the game on without necessarily playing an overly-active role, So that the remainder of the armies (the bots) can continue to do what they always do, try to kill each other as well as the players

The key focus area, I think is south of Cagney West. And it should include Drawde's fixes otherwise it will be more labor for the human players than neccesary, facing both challenge of not always firing and now also, boredom from the existing issues in the stock map.

Offline matthewfarenheit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Vagabond
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #55 on: 24-03-2010, 08:03:16 »
KT kills? I have never seen a KT spawn at Goodwood in Singleplayer. Am I doing something different or wrong?

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #56 on: 24-03-2010, 09:03:31 »
No you aren't. I had to manaully change the Tiger I to a Tiger II.

I went to operation Goodwood folder> Server> Gamemodes> gmp_coop>\64
and opened GameplayObjects.con in a text editor. Within that file are all vehicles in the map. I simply found the Tiger file and replaced it with kingtiger_1944fall

And voila, the KT came to life. I also changed the Panther from the ones currently in to panthera_alt which is yellowish rather than brownish and works better in comoflage for that map.




Offline Michael Z Freeman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 799
  • Formerly known as DJ Barney. The Few are many ;)
    • View Profile
    • Homepage
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #57 on: 25-03-2010, 14:03:00 »
I've been going through the maps with v1.1 installed. I got to Op Goodwood and Op Hiacinth and they crash after a few minutes. I don't think I was playing Luttich long enough to get a CTD. Other things noticed ...

   > Luttich ... Germans cannot take bottom right CP. Flag shows as German on pole but is American in interface.
   > Commander tries to take uncappable CP, on Supercharge, German side for example.

   > Spotting doesn't work ?

Like the commander spam some of these are map based and probably outside the scope of this tweak/fix ... should I be reporting these somewhere else ?

I sent in the crash reports using the bug reporter. Should I be doing this ? I don't want to confuse the FH devs. I don't know if their report includes installed fixes.

I notice the Push mode is working on Tunis, maybe I just did not notice before. CP are taken in sequence and some  are circled in blue and cannot be taken back by the other side.
« Last Edit: 25-03-2010, 14:03:56 by DJ Barney »

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #58 on: 25-03-2010, 15:03:20 »
I've been going through the maps with v1.1 installed. I got to Op Goodwood and Op Hiacinth and they crash after a few minutes. I don't think I was playing Luttich long enough to get a CTD. Other things noticed ...

   > Luttich ... Germans cannot take bottom right CP. Flag shows as German on pole but is American in interface.
   > Commander tries to take uncappable CP, on Supercharge, German side for example.

   > Spotting doesn't work ?

Like the commander spam some of these are map based and probably outside the scope of this tweak/fix ... should I be reporting these somewhere else ?

I sent in the crash reports using the bug reporter. Should I be doing this ? I don't want to confuse the FH devs. I don't know if their report includes installed fixes.

I notice the Push mode is working on Tunis, maybe I just did not notice before. CP are taken in sequence and some  are circled in blue and cannot be taken back by the other side.


I experienced the spotting issue once on Siege of Tobruk, but only when I picked up a dead enemy kit which has the binocs... I couldn't place an artillery spot either.

Yes, the barn flag in Luttich does have the double cap issue. I think Winterrhilf would need to know this cuz he managed to fix those in Fall of Tobruk and El Alamein. It happens only once in a while on Luttich though, specifically when the axis face resistance before capping the base - A thing that occurs rarely, so I can imagine why it might have been missed. A similar situation occurs in Sidi Rezegh with the 2-storey base.

Yer, Supercharge was probably the first map in Fh2 to get AI (I think) as it was the first map to be released and so it suffers from the initial issues that the devs faced in bot-support. I think it actually worked better in 2.0, showing the commander issue only once the Allies had capped all but the last 2 flags in the town. Some work might have been done to fix it to produce worse results.

I think it might be more effective outlining the issues here since SP is now an independent venture.

Push mode works on alot of maps actually - But only if you are connected to the net. For most maps, the commander AI actually follows this order although it sometimes (rarely) fouls up - More in some maps than others, where you get the commander sending the entire force to cap an uncappable flag and keeping them there while the cap flags need to be taken by the player single-handed.

A map like Fall of Tobruk, has this at the end when the church and last flag are all that remains - Also happens when the commander tells his attack force to cap flags inland without having capped all the first line flags.

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: AI tweak/fix mini-mod v1.1
« Reply #59 on: 27-04-2010, 18:04:33 »
Hi,

Drawde? Any word on the next patch release?