Author Topic: Luttich 2.25...  (Read 3496 times)

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #15 on: 31-01-2010, 09:01:52 »
...Some of the German tanks have hull MG entries in their own weapons.ai file, but I don't think the game actually uses these, there are no references to them in the .tweak file...

...I'll have to do some more testing to see if the Sherman hull MGs work correctly - I've made a lot of changes to the AI files so may have fixed the problem already. I certainly noticed the AI using both the hull and hatch-mounted MGs on the M5 Stuart.
At first, I tried putting the same entry into the M4A1's weapons.ai to see if that'd fix it, but nope...

And after comparing the .tweak and .ai files of the Panther, M4A1, and Stuart numerous times, I'm still at a loss as to why the Stuart uses it's hull MG and the M4A1 won't. Everything looks ok but...*shrugs*

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #16 on: 03-02-2010, 18:02:04 »
Tested Luettich today. Playing as US team.

The Turret MGer fires its turret MG and hits some target, granting me several driver assist points. Nice!

The German tanks i encountered (one Panzer 4H and one Panther A) respond differently. The Panzer 4H fires its AP round and missed (hits a rock), i opened fire and killed him. The Panther strangely didn't fire at me (even though has been around ever since the beginning). I noticed him pointing his cannon at me, but it takes 2 shot for my Sherman to his sides, but he didn't return any fire, instead he popped smokes (something new 'eh?), so i easily destroy it.

Offline djinn

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #17 on: 03-02-2010, 21:02:37 »
Smoke? Never seen that... sure it wasn't an infantry hitchhiker?

Will sure be cool to see weaker tanks pop smoke before taking on tanks with bigger guns, but sure wont do to see em do only that, like some infantry units I know  ::)

And Panther popping smoke on account of a Sherman... tsk, tsk, tsk... Not quite a good thing

Yes, its true.. I DO see the Panther point but never fire... so it ends up being an over-priced mobile mg platform, especially in relation to the M10, saved only by its better manoueverability


In a map like Luttch, I really feel both camps attacking rather than defending will make tank and infantry combat alot more interesting with battles taking place in bocage country and open field around the town of Mortain rather than in those narrow streets.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #18 on: 04-02-2010, 15:02:52 »
I see what you mean. There are a lot of wasted spaces in Luettich, especially those grass fields.

But as a player, i also rarely go there because of limited access. The stone fences are to high to jump on, and bots see through thick grasses, making fights uninteresting.

Offline djinn

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #19 on: 04-02-2010, 19:02:15 »
THAT'S the BOCAGE fer ya!

But seriously. think about it. Add the attack-enemy uncap clause to the commander ai and have the first battles take place in the hell of the bocage and with tanks breaking through and fighting in the open fields.

Either hold off the enemy in that shit of a battlefield, or fall back to the town and defend from there

As German, once you overcome the enemy there, you then move in for the prize - the town of Mortain.

In FH1, this was very possible because of how bots were. in instances like PHL for FH1, where enemy fired from insane distances and could see through the brush, it was my job to push the attack on, lying flat on my stomach, shouting out to AI to attack, attack attack, using nades, firing the few enemy units I DID see...In the end, it was my brain and the bots' braun that carried the day.

I think it should be so here too. Increases the variety of battlefields in the single map too... From the tank graveyard to the North East of Mortain with a few destroyed vehicles for cover, the boacage and the mud walls for cover, open fields between the bocage and charging enemy units and finally, the town, farm and church area

Teach bots to use all stationary weapons, perhaps even the one up in the church, replace the mgs in the town with deployed Allies mgs and we could have some real strongpoints to battle over... Give the bots a real fighting chance.

Ofcourse, a key thing would be to have bots finally firing at the guy poking out of the tank, hanomag or manning the mg instead of either tossing smoke or firing at the entire vehicle. Germ,an uber tanks ACTUALLY firing back... preferably mg or HE if at infantry and perhaps bailing vehicles or switching position if need be.

I'm kinda gettind tired of playing Luttch 2.0 and finally-working-Goodwood-with-bugs and there is precious else I can add as feedback that I haven't already added in some other thread

just saying...
« Last Edit: 04-02-2010, 19:02:25 by djinn »

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #20 on: 05-02-2010, 09:02:19 »
...I'm kinda gettind tired of playing Luttch 2.0 and finally-working-Goodwood-with-bugs and there is precious else I can add as feedback that I haven't already added in some other thread

just saying...
If it's a good tank battle you're looking for, play Aberdeen.

I've seen some great battles around the Central Village and with the gun fix the Paks have a field day.

At one point, I spawned at Central Village and was killed 3 times in row by a bot on the MG42 in the bunker at Strongpoint A before I managed to put a HE shell through the window he was shooting out of... :)

But it ain't perfect...the Valentine and Matilda are virtually unstoppable, and when the Brits take Strongpoint A, bots on the Paks repeatedly shoot at tanks coming out of the German main, but the sandbags are too high to shoot over.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #21 on: 05-02-2010, 15:02:53 »
What i mean is the bots rarely enter the Bocage because they need open-wide access to it, not some tightly closed enterance (broken stone fences), tiny gaps... etc

For SP, a big step of changing the map is needed to make them more enjoyable.

Offline Orunes

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #22 on: 06-02-2010, 12:02:32 »
All TY for your information I hope it will help! TYVVVVVm :)
@rune$

Offline djinn

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #23 on: 06-02-2010, 16:02:42 »
@ZooMotorpool
I've seen Germans travel across practically all areas of the map when they are either attacking Mortain or on seek and destroy i.e. when they encounter me as enemy and are pursuing. So I supposed Allied infantry should be able to do so. Tanks maneuver through really narrow street alleys you don't expect them to be able to - I'm sure they can do the bocage corridors which are much larger just fine... and they do... what they don't pass is the open fields.

You have the bot-modding skill, zM. Maybe, try adding the attack enemy-uncap to both sides and see what they do...

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #24 on: 07-02-2010, 06:02:33 »
The problem with Luettich is like it crashes when i play as Germans, but it remains okay when i play as Americans. Dunno what the cause, but the when playing as Americans, it will eventually crashes too.

BTW, will try your suggestion.

Offline djinn

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #25 on: 07-02-2010, 12:02:32 »
Had what I think must have been my best game on Luttich a few minutes ago.. granted, the Germans did park at their home base and top gunners on all sides sat there without a driver, even once on the M10, but it flowed

Battles took place in the lower bocage connecting the church to Mortain East and Mortain West with the farm. Tanks fired at tanks and infantry in the hedgrow, mg42 bipod gunners proned at range and covered assaults, real greandes were thrown half as much as smoke and the AT guns changed hands several times with infantry using shreks, zooks and nades to neutralise the gunner....

Once i capped all bases as Germans, I was curious to see what happens next. Will the Allies sit in their tanks' top gun position and stand around like the Germans did in that situation? Or will they launch weak counter-attacks?

In the end, I decided to switch to Yanks to see for myself and I was quite impressed. Tanks with infantry and APC in tow, fanned out in a pincer move to cap the entire town of Mortain, while a few dashed through the kill zone right in the middle (the open field) - Kill zone, because most of the defending Germans had that area in range. I was follwing an M10 across the open field when it engaged a target somewhere behind the hedgrow at the end of the field. It fired... and missed, quickly being transformed into a hull of burning wreck by a direct hit from an unseen panzer, which only revealed itself by its muzzle blast. On seeing my squad behind the tank, it begun moving from cover - and it revealed itself - A Panzer V Panther, moving in, cannon firing and mg atop blazing away as it went. and it dawned on me...

Perhaps what could make the battle all the more interesting is to include one or a number of capture point at the edge of the enemy-out-of-bounds area on both sides (And covering each of the three entries into Mortain i.e the 3 fields on either side for both sides of the battlefield)... It doesn't have to have a flag. Just a capture point (It needs to be cap-pable otherwise the entire force will amass at one point and lock the enemy at their home base). Once the town and surrounding areas are capped, they will push on to that cap-point and once capped will stop recieving attack/defend commands.

What this does is to have them move away from the town across the wide open space between them and the enemy base (allied or axis, depending) and defend all sides from there... The enemy would thus cap have to cap the 3 bases at its side of the battlefield, funneling their attack at first and then fanning out in such a way that it doesn't seem like a solo individual capping any single already-exsiting flag (especially the church and farm) - And also, it increases the effective attack strength since they have to wait at the flags to cap them, adding to their numbers, making any initial attack or counnter-attack seem that more agressive, instead of a few scattered infantry moving in as is now.

Whaddya think?
« Last Edit: 07-02-2010, 12:02:36 by djinn »

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #26 on: 08-02-2010, 12:02:34 »
Yeah, why not. Anything would be an improvement on the current situation.

Playing as the Yanks is a snooze-fest due to the Germans inability to hold a flag for more than a few minutes. When they do take one, it results in a mass migration to it. They retake the flag and resume waiting for the few Germans that trickle down from the main.

It plays better as a German, but you still have to respawn at the main every so often to "motivate" the bots.

Offline djinn

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #27 on: 08-02-2010, 14:02:33 »
I played as germans long enuf to realis it happens both ways. It got to a point wher only a handful of yanks attackd quickly bein dispatchd. Like jerry, they sat on their top mg position, n the rest stood around.

With what i suggest, they wud b abl to see the enemy right from base n if the commander can't inspire them, the grin on the enemy's face aross the field would

Offline evhgear

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #28 on: 06-04-2010, 23:04:36 »
I wood like to comment on this map, but this map just doesn't work in Singleplayer and online

Offline djinn

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Re: Luttich 2.25...
« Reply #29 on: 07-04-2010, 00:04:27 »
There is a bug with the new bots on tank-mounted mg in Luttich 2.25. However Download Drawde's patch from the Feedback>Singleplayer pages and it will work for you with some added benefits for all maps