Poll

When you make a kill or are killed what should or shouldn't be displayed on the screen (HUD)?

Show who you just killed.
57 (17.9%)
Don't show who you just killed.
15 (4.7%)
Only show who you killed if you killed a friendly (team kill).
30 (9.4%)
Add delay before your kill is confirmed.
18 (5.6%)
Show the person who killed you.
59 (18.5%)
Do not show who killed you.
16 (5%)
Show who just killed you for frienldy fire (team kill) only.
20 (6.3%)
Show which specific weapon (K98, Lee Enfield MK III, ....) you were killed with.
47 (14.7%)
Show general type of weapon (tank, airplane, handheld, ...) you were killed with.
16 (5%)
Don't show weapon that killed you at all.
17 (5.3%)
Show weapon that killed you if you were killed by friendly fire (team kill) only.
13 (4.1%)
Add delay before you are shown who or what killed you
11 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 96

Author Topic: Kill messages: Your stance  (Read 6601 times)

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #30 on: 11-04-2009, 21:04:36 »
I want to see whom I killed, I wouldn't mind a delay, but I still want to see which SOB shot me or when I got my sweet revenge.
Knowing who I just killed just adds soooo much to the fun, in PR, even though the feature might be more immersive it just doesn't add the fun and I get bored quite soon, as every kill is anonymous and you can't relate to your achievement... killing faceless enemies in a GAME! Then I could play SP why even bother to go online.


As FH2 is also about fun and not only work in a game I am against removing the killmessages.

Hugh I have spoken.
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Offline Natty

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #31 on: 11-04-2009, 21:04:36 »
WALL OFTEXT!!!!

make it simple Donutz: kill message that shows for all (entire server) or just the person you killed, or the person who killed you (internal).

I prefer internal, I dont care whatever dude on the other side of the map killed etc etc... BUT: I wanna know who I killed and/or who killed me - ofcourse BOTH for TK and enemy, no difference.

So the vote could be:

-ABSOLUTELY NO MESSAGE

-AS IT IS NOW

-ONLY INTERNAL MESSAGES (Like it is in Battlefield:Heroes)


Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #32 on: 11-04-2009, 21:04:13 »
My revised opinion (I had a long think):

The HUD should say who killed who.  The weapon used to do it should not be shown at all.  However, the clincher here is that the HUD should run about 1-2 minutes behind the game.  So you kill someone.  1-2 minutes later your score is updated and the kill message appears up in the corner for all to see.  The message that appears halfway down the screen that says "you killed x" appears at this time as well.  The exception to all this are teamkills, which are updated immediatly.

The above I feel allows the whole community aspect of "oh, I was killed by donutz, I'll have to return him the favour", but also allows the whole "omg, did I kill him, is it safe to go on?" feeling.

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #33 on: 11-04-2009, 21:04:13 »

Why did I vote the way I did? :
- Option 3 (Only show if you killed a friendly)
- Option  5 (Show the person who killed you)
- Option 10 (Don't show the weapon that killed you at all.

Because when you kill:
-  I think that giving away who killed you spoils a lot of information, it removes the "Did I ot him or did I not?" factor completely.  That ain't fun. It's much more fun to find out you wasted time waiting for an enemy that is long gone or long dead or that manages to kill you 'cause you thought you cleared the area...

WALL OFTEXT!!!!

make it simple Donutz: kill message that shows for all (entire server) or just the person you killed, or the person who killed you (internal).

I prefer internal, I dont care whatever dude on the other side of the map killed etc etc... BUT: I wanna know who I killed and/or who killed me - ofcourse BOTH for TK and enemy, no difference.

So the vote could be:

-ABSOLUTELY NO MESSAGE

-AS IT IS NOW

-ONLY INTERNAL MESSAGES (Like it is in Battlefield:Heroes)


There are way too many options to allow for a simple poll with two or three options.
Anyway, yes yet an other attribute to play with would be with changing wether only the player or the entire team can see a  "killed" or "killedby"  (= death) message.

 Yooopie wasting time is fun (Sorry for sarcasm here but I couldn't help it). The concept of fun is a personal thing the way I see it. And even if not knowing if you killed someone is not 'fun' (thrilling might be the word) it is definately rewarding (definately in time) in a way.
Maybe "wasting time" is a poor choice of words. But I'd think it would be quite funny to find out you were overlooking an area you think an enemy was in only to find out later that the chap already has been killed or moved to an other position.

This is also of importance to gameplay as you will be less likely to go after an other target if you are unsure if your current target is dead ro not, has or has not relocated himself. You might try and investigate (dangerous!), you might keep digged in (while it's save, thus allowing the enemy to outflank you from an other position) and there is a whole bunch of other scenarious to think of that would create a more realistic, more deverse and more fun gameplay.

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- Sure, people could check the scoreboard to see if they got a higher score but this would require
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some time, take your eye of the battlefield (good for the enemy if you did not kill him) and thus would generally reduce the times people use this "game exploit of information" to find out if they made a kill. Especially in a tense situation you don't go and check your score.

 Making a logical chain if kill-msgs are an exploit then scoreboard are exploit too and even going further killing someone becouse he was cheking how well is he doing is an exploit as well. It's a matter in drawing the line what things are exploits and which are features that help us in being aware of our surroundings just like senses do IRL.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I didn't spoke about removing the scoreboard. Personally I could live without, letthem poor scorewhores go and play Quake or Doom.  But for the sake of compromise I can live with keeping it around.  Regardless, I dont'quite get how not getting feedback (kill messages) for kills and thus not knowing if you killed the guy behind the rock with your grenade  conflicts with "your awareness of surroundings" as in real life? Hell it is just that, if you see or think you see you got a kill you probably did. It's fun and realistically simulates how your mid works in real life. :)

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- It would be nice if your score would be update when the people you killed respawn, probably not possible though and might cause problems at the end of the round.

If no-kill-msg would be immplemented. Yeah.
A delay would be a sort of compromise if the kill messages would not be removed. It would still give those who care about this text their text but a bit later so it stops the "instant unrealistic feedback" me and others complain about.


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- Showing which exact weapon killed you gives away too much info, you will know that a sniper got you and thus look for him. But how the hell would you know a sniper got you unles you saw the guy with your own eyes?! This causes people hunting for snipers and other hidden enemies which is "unfair".

This might be the point I agree with except for the 'unfair' part. Both sides have the same abillity to know what weapon made their demise and that is fair. It just makes harder for a sniper to do his job but it shouldn't be too easy in the first place.
True, both teams have this "unfair"  (or should I say "doesn't make sense" and "allows you to counter react to something you shouldn't be able to know unless you actually saw it with your own eyes or a team mate told you about" ) atvantage thus balancing it out. But that doesn't mean it's right. If we give both sides the ability to see the enemy on the HUD (if within 10 meters or something from you)  it would be balanced but it woulnd't be right... it would give you information you aren't supposed to know, it would be unrealistc as hell.

Quote
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- SHowing the general type of weapon could be an option, though even this may sometimes give you too much info unless you actually saw it with your own eyes what killed you.  Atleast you won't know a sniper rifle got you but just a "handweapon"  which could be anything basically.


I see a way for an exploit  here: someone spawncamps with a tank and you don't even know what killed you (in general) and you can't act accordingly (get AT kit) unill it's too late.
You cna only camp a base. Firing at a capturable flag is alright, if the spawns are well located it should be very hard to cover a spawn point anyway and if it does it should only affect one out of a larger number of spawn points thus still allowig you to counter react while a tank is "supressing" the flag (so that team mates can move in more easily and capture the flag).

When talking about an uncapturable flag (base flag), same as above there should be alternative spawns.

And I doubt nobody would know what killed them, and if nobody saw the tank pounding the team they deserve to fail at taking approperiate counter messages. The tank probably did a very good job at remaining stealthy (that or the other team really really sucks badly, in which case I'd still say the tanker deserved his kills due to a clueless bun ch of idiots with IQ 40).

And what would be better then you spawning as antitank class, going to the front where the new threat has been detected (or where it is believed to be atleast) only to find out it's actually a guy with a mortar and you with your bazooka/PIAT/schreck and knife (or whatever the kits will look like) have to face close combat infantry? Pwned!

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- Not showing the weapon that killed you at all prevents you knowing too much completely. Unless you saw it with your own eyes you won't know what got you. SO if you are killed from behind you won't be able to yell over team chat "Watchout, a tank just shot me from behind!" , it could have been a grenade, mortar or arty impact or even infantry...  thus keeping up the element of suprise and keeping you guessing. You might think a tank got you, take "approperiate"  measures on respawn only to find out you were wrong (or you will never find out at all... hah!).

The same case as in previous quote. Only thing I'd like to add that I don't see amusing to keep players 'in the dark'.
They got eyes don't they? And team chat? A minimap? voice chat? It's not impossible to take counter measures, it shouldn't be much harder at all. It only stops people from "magicaly"  taking counter measures that they shouldn't really be aware of to begin with. Which means an advantage if the attacking team plays it's cards right (deception, stealth and other such things to win the battle become more rewarding).

Quote
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Conclusion:
With this setup people know when they make a TK, are TK-ed and have to guess which weapon got them unless they saw it with there own eys. They will know who got them for fun (it's a game afterall) and fairness (reporting cheaters).  An acceptable alternative would be to show the general type of weapon that killed you.

I would accept with all those points as they're logical and made for the sake of gameplay if it wouldn't be the fact that FH is not the type of a game I see it go well with.
I believe FH is meant to be realistic to the extend that it would hurt gameplay. In my opinion my setup would increase gameplay and improve realism and thus fit the FH spirit perfectly. It would strenghten FH.

Ofcourse this is just my view, I know there are many other views out there, hence why I mate this thread. :p
« Last Edit: 11-04-2009, 21:04:21 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline Gl@mRock

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #34 on: 11-04-2009, 22:04:26 »

Offline K.Cower

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #35 on: 11-04-2009, 23:04:16 »
I'm with Mr. Donutz...
Devs may remove them (messages) temporary, at least. And then, will see is that fun or not.
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Offline Danger X

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #36 on: 12-04-2009, 00:04:23 »
Really, it is a game. I want to see who I killed, but also who ran me over with a bicycle, so I can type a message like: nice roadpizza you made of me....(insert name).

It is a mod played by a community. This community is far from faceless, and so that should be reflected in the game.

Knowing who killed you gives you the ability to launch a mass attack at that person, for fun's sake.

Personally, reality in games can go hang if it interferes with the thrill of shooting players, not just player models.


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Offline nephros

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #37 on: 12-04-2009, 04:04:58 »
voted
3) show teamkills only
4) add delay to confirm your kills
11) do not show the weapon you are killed with

The kill notifications give you too much information during a firefight. When for instance I am in a room and survive a grenade blast, the first thing going through my mind is that the other person knows I am still alive. The game is more fun with the uncertainty. I often will fire at muzzleflashes, and I would frankly rather not know for certain if I had scored a hit or not on someone deep in the shadows of a building or in vegitation.

I voted against showing the weapon because particularly with the short spawn times of FH, if you know what you were killed with, you have a much better idea who killed you and from where, and you can go directly after them. In my opinion one of the current drawbacks to FH is that you can find the perfect ambush spot, or use painstaking care sneaking up on a position, but as soon as you first draw blood you are on a timer, and as soon as that person respawns they are in all likelyhood going to be right back on top of your ass if you don't move. This is problematic if there are bullets flying overhead, particularly as lethal as guns are in FH.

The drawback to that system is that it is fun to watch the scroll to see random things like Joe Smith [smoke grenade] randomnoob, and it is fun to know you just shot one of the devs. Of course, I will also admit that I have had rounds in which I got pissed at one particular person who either repeatedly killed me or killed me and then insulted me and it degenerated into a personal vendetta for me. This is not a good thing either.

Offline Safe-Keeper

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #38 on: 12-04-2009, 06:04:54 »
A half-serious compromise I can think of for those fans of wacky kills...

A default, non-TK kill message is comprised of a string that roughly looks like this: "{person making kill} [{killmessage string of vehicle/weapon}] {person killed}". So for example, if the weapon is an MP-40 and Lobo kills Donutz, it reads "Lobo [MP-40] Donutz".

How about about changing the string so it reads "{killmessage string of vehicle/weapon}" only, then blank out the killmessage strings of the regular weapons and vehicles, while adding amusing ones for bicycles, smoke grenades and the like?

If the killmessage is all that's shown, and the killmessages say something like "Look to both sides before crossing the bicycle path!" or "Remember, kids: Smoking kills...", people will know when such funny kills have been made. You could, if you had to, also throw in player names, though I envision this'd make it harder to make diverse quotes.

This is only a half-serious suggestion, and I'm not sure if I want it in as it might encourage silly 'mocking about' too much, but I thought I'd throw it out there nonetheless.

Offline NoCoolOnesLeft

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #39 on: 12-04-2009, 09:04:34 »
I would like to see the 'Commander [name] is on duty' spam go away, though.

Offline Rawhide

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #40 on: 12-04-2009, 10:04:31 »
I say, only show TK's

The rest is unimportant

Say if Psykfallet sprays and prays your Kübel full of Hans and Fritzels with the Thompson on hslan

What does it mather if you can see WHO did it? Just type in the chat, "nice thompson spray"

It's war, it shouldn't be that personal.

And the best thing, if we remove it. Everything looks better, looking out over Gazala from the Hurricane and a wall of red/blue text up in the corner just ruins things


Offline Topdogger

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #41 on: 12-04-2009, 13:04:08 »
Like it as it is.

Offline Natty

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #42 on: 12-04-2009, 15:04:29 »
no its not war.. its a game, like Danger X says... If you remove the text who killed who, you also remove the human being behind the killed player, and then its like playing VS bots....

But: I see no reason why on earth I care if someone in the other team TKs, or even in my team.. or other players killing eachother... it is meaningless information for me + it destroys immersion and clogs up the screen... The Minimap I also dislike, it doesnt show the important information like the CapsLock map does.

If possible; best would be to only see kills, TKs and Deaths that happens in your squad.. for example if Im SL, I wanna know when they die in mu squad, and when they kill someone.. (not all are using VoIP, and for sure they arent all screaming "I just killed Mr-fragz with a ATR" < this I wanna know if Mr-fragz have been tormenting us with a tank... etc etc..

But I sure dont care what happens on the other side of the map in Squad 4

Discuss more please

Offline Capten_C

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #43 on: 12-04-2009, 15:04:08 »
I want to know if it's Rambolt that has driven over my sneakily placed mine, and that O0mn1o has been caught out by my also sneakily placed Smine  ;D

We were being hunted by a tank near Gabes wall last night and a player called 'medical.emergency' slammed it with Beau. bombs. As I could see in the scrolling text who it was I was able to type a "N1 Beau!". So it is nice to know what's going on around the server sometimes, but I could probably get used to playing without it.

But to take the personal 'you killed / you were killed by' messages out would take a lot of fun and banter away from the game.

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Offline Lupin

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Re: Kill messages: Your stance
« Reply #44 on: 12-04-2009, 17:04:16 »
I like the messages the way they are.