Author Topic: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]  (Read 9116 times)

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #15 on: 12-04-2009, 01:04:15 »
Tanks. Without us cannon fodder they are nothing.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
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Offline Kev4000

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #16 on: 14-04-2009, 03:04:11 »
Reminds me of a round I had in the tiger in Normandy. Was amazing, destroyed 8 allied tanks roaming around with it. Was eventually taken out by a cromwell to the back. Its so fun seeing a sherman in the hedgerows, facing your front to it, knowing it has nowhere to escape and can't damage you. Just tease it a bit by firing the machine gun, wait 20 seconds or something, and fire.

Offline [ret]azreal

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #17 on: 14-04-2009, 03:04:39 »
That's not nice Kev :P The Shermans, they try hard too.

Offline sheikyerbouti

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #18 on: 14-04-2009, 04:04:32 »
Reminds me of a round I had in the tiger in Normandy. Was amazing, destroyed 8 allied tanks roaming around with it. Was eventually taken out by a cromwell to the back. Its so fun seeing a sherman in the hedgerows, facing your front to it, knowing it has nowhere to escape and can't damage you. Just tease it a bit by firing the machine gun, wait 20 seconds or something, and fire.


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Offline Torenico

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #19 on: 15-04-2009, 04:04:04 »
Kev.. i just.. think i... gotta.. play... Normady..

As long as the Panther takes every tank whit 1 Shot.. im happy.


Offline VonMudra

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #20 on: 15-04-2009, 04:04:55 »
Well tore, its gun is better then the tiger's.  And the tiger takes all tanks with one shot.  So yeah, do the math;)

Offline [130.Pz]S.Tiemann

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #21 on: 15-04-2009, 04:04:52 »
Well tore, its gun is better then the tiger's.  And the tiger takes all tanks with one shot.  So yeah, do the math;)

hmm i had no idea, i knew it was really good but its only a 75mm. Maybe thats why they always kick my ass in mow.

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #22 on: 15-04-2009, 09:04:34 »
Size doesn't always matter. It's just like the 17 pounder. Thats 76/77mm (I always forget, sorry) but compare it to the 75mm Sherman gun. It's the barrel and the gun mechanics. The Panthers gun is top notch quality.
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Offline General_Henry

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #23 on: 15-04-2009, 09:04:56 »
Well tore, its gun is better then the tiger's.  And the tiger takes all tanks with one shot.  So yeah, do the math;)

hmm i had no idea, i knew it was really good but its only a 75mm. Maybe thats why they always kick my ass in mow.

i think the armour piercing ability is related to momentum of the shell and the pressure when the shell stuck the plates...

pressure is proportional to Force/Area, while Force is proportional to momentum which is proportional to both mass and velocity...

the reasoning behind is because pressure cause stress in materials and make them deform.

so if the shell could be hitting enemies at very high velocity i think it could outweights the shells' inferior mass.

the actual case if far more complicated, but this is my prediction with a simple "model" using my knowledge.
« Last Edit: 15-04-2009, 09:04:24 by General_Henry »

Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #24 on: 15-04-2009, 11:04:19 »
Yeah, it´s the high velocity that makes the Panthers gun such a usefull tank killer. Remember, it "only" had 75mm in diameter, just like the Panzer4s gun, but it was much longer (L/48 of the Panzer 4 versus L/70 on the Panther). Velocity is a very important factor in the penetration of armour. A low velocity gun of the same calibre will always be worse at penetrating armour than a longer one. Again, the Panzer4 is a good example. The L/24 gun wasn´t able to penetrate more ammo than the longer gun. And then of course density of the projectile was important, too. Speed and density. Today´s tanks fire high-density projectiles either made from depleted Uranium or Tungsten at very high velocities (the M1 Abrams for example fires it´s shell at 1 mile per second!) to penetrate even the most modern tanks.
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Offline Schneider

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #25 on: 15-04-2009, 12:04:23 »
so if the shell could be hitting enemies at very high velocity i think it could outweights the shells' inferior mass.

Yup, simple but true, just the way it is, E = 1/2 mv².

Offline Mspfc Doc DuFresne

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #26 on: 16-04-2009, 01:04:40 »
Which means, of course, that doubling m doubles K.E., while doubling V quadruples K.E. Because action is equal and opposite to reaction, no matter how you produce more K.E., the recoil is still proportional to the K.E. The K.E. released into the target depends on how much is left when the projectile flies out the opposite end, so because this doesn't happen in FH2 the K.E. released into the target is %100 what it started with, minus that lost to air resistance. Of course, if the shot flies out the opposite end of a tank, it released more than enough K.E. to do its job.

/nerd
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Offline Schneider

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #27 on: 16-04-2009, 01:04:38 »
/nerd

No, no. That doubling of velocity equals 4x of the energy was exactly what I meant to say with that formula, regarding that a lower calibre can do more damage. So you have done well, my boy.  :)

Offline General_Henry

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #28 on: 16-04-2009, 02:04:23 »
Which means, of course, that doubling m doubles K.E., while doubling V quadruples K.E. Because action is equal and opposite to reaction, no matter how you produce more K.E., the recoil is still proportional to the K.E. The K.E. released into the target depends on how much is left when the projectile flies out the opposite end, so because this doesn't happen in FH2 the K.E. released into the target is %100 what it started with, minus that lost to air resistance. Of course, if the shot flies out the opposite end of a tank, it released more than enough K.E. to do its job.

/nerd


unfortunately, resistance increase with velocity and the way to reduce KE loss is to fire a heavier shell (which stores more KE due to higher mass, from E=1/2mv^2), so i think the actual case is much much more complicated. the 37mm guns fire shells with very high velocity yet they ... sucks.

Offline Mspfc Doc DuFresne

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Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
« Reply #29 on: 16-04-2009, 05:04:15 »
Which means, of course, that doubling m doubles K.E., while doubling V quadruples K.E. Because action is equal and opposite to reaction, no matter how you produce more K.E., the recoil is still proportional to the K.E. The K.E. released into the target depends on how much is left when the projectile flies out the opposite end, so because this doesn't happen in FH2 the K.E. released into the target is %100 what it started with, minus that lost to air resistance. Of course, if the shot flies out the opposite end of a tank, it released more than enough K.E. to do its job.

/nerd


unfortunately, resistance increase with velocity and the way to reduce KE loss is to fire a heavier shell (which stores more KE due to higher mass, from E=1/2mv^2), so i think the actual case is much much more complicated. the 37mm guns fire shells with very high velocity yet they ... sucks.

Partly because the total mas of the 37mm shell was so low, especially its length. Its diameter isn't nearly as important as its length, when you are going for penetration and aerodynamics. The most important thing for aerodynamics is cross sectional area. This is the concept behind APDS; the sabot allows it to fill a gun barrel, but does not impede the dense flechette in flight.
Twilight - the movie is just like Schindler's list... You know you're watching a crime against humanity, but it's sort of entertaining.~~Ts4EVER