Universal Carriers (and other APCs)

[Eat Uranium]

I noticed that APCs in the 2.15 patch were modified to provide infantry ammo, which I think is a nice touch.  I have 2 suggestions, one for the universal carrier, and one for APCs in general.

The first is to have a universal carrier armed with a boys rifle.  Would be good for some of the earlier african maps as well as the early western front.  Would be the (worse off) counterpart to the sdkfz 251/10 with the 37mm we have on FoTobruk.  I also think the russians used some of their carriers with boys rifles.


The other is to have APCs act as mobile spawn points.  The idea behind this is to make them a real alternative to just grabbing a truck.  I think it can be set so that the spawn would only work while the APC is occupied, which would encorage someone to stay behind in it and provide fire support.  If possible, the spawn would only work if the APC was occupied by its own team; and on the spawn map, the button would be a different colour e.g. blue.

[Ccharge]

possible on the boys rifle version instead of having 6 seats you could have only 4 and there could be the bren ontop like in the picture there.

I agree with the spawn but possible make it so the spawn cant be used within main bases.

[sheikyerbouti]

 I disagree with the idea of APC's becoming spawnpoints. The only reason being that some guy will come along and hijack the apc screwing the whole team in the process.

 I would love to see the 2 pounder universal carrier over the Boys model as it packs more punch and versatility than a boys rifle which would be used as a infinite sniper ammo vehicle anyways.

[azreal]

I do like the idea of a uni carrier wit a Boys Rifle, and I hope to see some of the other versions such as the flame thrower version too.

However I think with the SL spawns in FH2 adding another mobile spawn point would serve as a bit much.

[altfuture]

Spawn point idea is interesting at a first glance (similar to transporters in 2142), but still sdkfz 251 has to be stronger to withstand that role. I think this vehicle is completely useless in FH while it of course, wasn't in real war.

- In real war it was slow, crunchy, bulky and loud, but it was safe.
- In FH it's all of the said above, but not safe at all. Not a minute after you head somewhere with halftrack you get killed because it's fatally vulnerable to a single AT rifle hit. It is useful to some extent for mg support, but in that case armor really has no purpose as the machine gunner is outside anyway.

Therefore an Opel Blitz truck seemed to be much more useful in many situations on public servers.

[Die Happy]

Spawn point idea is interesting at a first glance (similar to transporters in 2142), but still sdkfz 251 has to be stronger to withstand that role. I think this vehicle is completely useless in FH while it of course, wasn't in real war.

- In real war it was slow, crunchy, bulky and loud, but it was safe.
- In FH it's all of the said above, but not safe at all. Not a minute after you head somewhere with halftrack you get killed because it's fatally vulnerable to a single AT rifle hit. It is useful to some extent for mg support, but in that case armor really has no purpose as the machine gunner is outside anyway.

Therefore an Opel Blitz truck seemed to be much more useful in many situations on public servers.

true thing they are damn vulnerable to AT-rifles but thats what AT-riles were made for.
in normandy those things work much better, an AT-infantry guy will think twice before the fires his 1 panzerfaust on an APCs and piat /bazooka and co got limited range  so you have to get close to get them
the german APC gets an front mounted MG42 which provides extremely lethal fire support.
they are still vulnerable but stand a better chance to survive compared to africa.
 

[altfuture]

true thing they are damn vulnerable to AT-rifles but thats what AT-riles were made for.

I have nothing against this, but I doubt the amount of guys with AT rifles in everyday combats was so dense in real war as in FH. Devs have made the AT rifle easier to get to get better gameplay, so therefore they could also alter the halftrack's vulnerability AT rifle to get better gameplay.

[Die Happy]

hmm true thing

[Admiral Donutz]

Aye, I think that's a fair point.

[Taranov]

2008 Universal Carriers Mk.I used in Red Army, britih and canadian built.

[Uberhauptstormfuhrer]

Yeah and please remove the one hit kill ability of the at rifle, 2 hits at least (Still happens to me)

As stated before the reason why the amoured carriers are rather weak in Africa is because of the abundance of AT guns and the AT rifles. The problem with the abundant AT guns is inherent to Afrika's open terrain so that is something we have to live with. But the power of the AT rifle vs. the amoured carrier is questionable. I don't think that nerfing the damage of the AT rifle is a good idea, maybe the accuary can be changed for long ranges and also that after 500m (or what is the distance in bf2?) the AT rifle does 0 damage.

But i think the best way to change this is to remove the AT rifle from the tank hunter kit and just give him explosives and smoke grenades. In some maps the gebalte ladung could be changed perhaps to mines with a fuse. Another good idea would be one kit to have gebalte ladung/sticky bombs (with smoke nades) and another kit with mines with fuses (and smoke nades) With this you could choose a variable kit load out, similar to the ability in bf 2 with changing your primary weapons. The mines could also be used differently, instead of sticking them under the ground, you could just trow them under the tracks of tanks, like in bf2 vanilla.
The AT rifle should then be changed as a pick up weapon at every flag.

Another idea for the germans would be to replace the smoke nades of the kit with two smoke stick nades connected with a string and when you trow it on a tank, it would stick. Similar like the german training video: mannen gegen panzer.

[Ccharge]

i doubt they'll make it so u can just throw mines. the whole point is that  it takes a minute to setup a mine in real life so there obviously going to make it take some time in this. Throwing it after its ready and setup might be a alright possobility but you would be giving up the ability to hide mines.

[Dukat]

I just posted about this in another thread, but I'd like to see mobile spawns. Most people would agree that halftracks of all sorts are deathtraps you rather avoid. But I think in the war they gave factual security besides mobility.

But as these vehicles blow up immediately when shot, it wouldn't make a big difference when adding a spawn, would it? I think it would be worth to experiment with such elements. You aint got anything to lose, do you? If the map is designed from scratch for such a purpose, it does not necessarily mean a contortion.

I think the effect when opposing such vehicles would be great. You shoot an incoming vehicle and the result would be that it backs out again while dropping people. It would disappear behind some cover but the enemy could lauch an ongoing attack from that position. You would probably call for a barrage, destroying the vehicle and temporarily silence that frontline section. I'd call that very realistic.

[Eat Uranium]

I pretty much agree with everything you said Dukat.  And I think that AT rifle fire could do less damage to APCs, but I'm not convinced.

I just realised something.  I'll put it to you.  Supposing the devs give the spawn point in APCs a try in 2.2.  I want to know if you would exempt any APC varients from the spawns.  I personally would not have spawns in the 37mm halftrack or the Stuka zu Fuss; but would have them in all of the universal carriers, as well as the standard hanomag.  Since no M3 halftrack has been annonced, I can't really comment on it.

[Dukat]

I just realised something.  I'll put it to you.  Supposing the devs give the spawn point in APCs a try in 2.2.  I want to know if you would exempt any APC varients from the spawns.  I personally would not have spawns in the 37mm halftrack or the Stuka zu Fuss; but would have them in all of the universal carriers, as well as the standard hanomag.  Since no M3 halftrack has been annonced, I can't really comment on it.

I don't care. You could try so many different things. Limiting spawnability on mobile spawns to squadleaders or adding spawns to some vehicles only while others of the same type don't get. I believe that would be subject to the mappers. In the end it needs to play well.
And on top of that it could end all the mourning of those that want rally points. Squadleaders could spawn on vehicles then and lead their men into the battle. They just gotta take care of the vehicle somehow. That would not be less difficult but requires teamplay and communication. Thus a mobile spawn is a smarter rally point and more easy to balance for the mapper, IMHO.