Author Topic: operation goodwood  (Read 13165 times)

Offline djinn

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #105 on: 04-04-2010, 13:04:53 »
I'm not sure about that last theory, Drawde... I might be wrong, but bots use PIATS and fausts quite often with me.

What I do note clearly is that it might have to do with a stationary gun of sorts.. Either the PAK or 88.. so it must be German.. Also, I note this both in Goodwood and Totalize. When there is no no needless destruction of property i.e the guns, the game plays fine - Blow one up and you might very likely get a CTD

As it requires the game to progress for those guns to manned and hence destroyed, it doesn't occur as fast as in Luttich - Which doesn't have active 88s or PAKs.

I was playing a game of Totalize and we went as far as capping the base across the river with heavy dogfights and playing chicken with AA guns - The Flakvierling wasn't manned otherwise the planes wont have stayed up for more than a couple of seconds. Unfortunately, the spawn system in that map has Jerry spawning where he is needed with Tommy only spawning out in the field so I couldn't hold ground long and sooner than later the German army reclaimed everything, down to the factory. In my frustration, I hoped into a Typhoon and beugn rocketing 88 guns and I noted that as soon as I got what seemed like a verified kill, the game CTD..
Might be a coincidence, but given that this is more of an infantry-only map with fixed gun defenses and I was the frontmost Allied trooper, it seems certain that somehow the Germans don't take kindly to destruction of property...

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #106 on: 05-04-2010, 15:04:26 »
Perhaps the fact that the guns are technically still there but unenterable messes up the AI.

Offline Raziel

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #107 on: 05-04-2010, 16:04:19 »
Agree with Djinn here! Totalize definitely crashes as soon as you destroy guns.
Yesterday was playing as allied. Capped the Artillery flag....fired one shot at the PAK situated below the Flak Battery and boom CTD

Offline Drawde

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #108 on: 07-04-2010, 18:04:26 »
No idea about Totalise (I haven't played any of the non-vehicle-navmeshed Normandy maps much) but I'm almost certain now that the cause of the Goodwood CTD (with the AI mod) is the British PIAT anti-tank weapon. With the standard AI mod files, Goodwood CTDs virtually every time, even with the static Pak40s replaced - with the PIAT files removed from aitweakweapons.zip, the map CTDs maybe 20-30% of the time.

I don't yet know what it is about the PIAT that's causing the crash. It's nothing directly to do with my mod - the reason removing the modded PIAT files prevents the CTD, is that the default FH2.25 AI data for this weapon makes it almost impossible for bots to fire it (minimum range 290, max range 300, IIRC!). It's almost certainly an AI/bot-related issue, as I've never had a CTD when firing the PIAT myself (I deliberately tried blowing up as many things as possible with it, including static guns, unmanned vehicles, and friendly vehicles, in an attempt to find the cause of the problem - no CTDs at all). It doesn't always crash the game, either - I've seen bot kill messages for the PIAT.

The Panzerfaust definitely doesn't cause any CTD issues, but I'm not certain about the other AT rocket weapons. I'm going to try running Luttich with the bazooka and/or Panzerschreck disabled to see if this fixes the CTD on this map.

As a temporary fix for Goodwood, I'll upload a new aitweakweapons.zip with AI usage disabled for the PIAT. I'm also working on a modified Goodwood which, as well as the static AT guns replaced with mobile ones, has the British M5A1 halftracks (these work OK with the AI mod), different Panther colour schemes, and slightly tweaked AI strategy files.

Offline Drawde

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #109 on: 15-04-2010, 18:04:35 »
The Goodwood CTD is definitely caused when static Pak40s are destroyed - I tried adding them back in, in case my AI mod had fixed whatever made them crash the game, and, about 10 minutes into the game, it crashed at the exact moment the Pak north of Cagny (near the 88s) was destroyed by a halftrack MG.
I'd assume that the CTD is something to do with either the explosion effect or the wreck model being missing or wrongly set up, but in this case why doesn't the static Pak40 crash multiplayer games as well?

The PIAT is definitely the second cause of the CTD (with the AI mod) once the static Pak40s are removed - disabling AI use for this completely (by setting its strength to 0 vs. all target types) appears to completely prevent CTDs on Goodwood I hope I'll be able to find out exactly what it is that's making the PIAT crash the game, and fix it, but if I don't manage to do this soon, I'll release the next version of my AI mod with the PIAT disabled for bots as a temporary fix (Goodwood 64 is the only map they get to use it on, anyway)

Offline djinn

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #110 on: 15-04-2010, 21:04:31 »
I never knew about PIATs. Have seen bots use them quite respectably in a number of instances... I AM sure abut them PAK guns though... Can't understand why an explosion will CTD in SP. Maybe compare the value for the PAK40 and other AT guns and see what the devs accidentally screwed up

So does it mean those 2 reasons are why Goodwood has been such a pain? No other bug?

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #111 on: 16-04-2010, 07:04:12 »
...I'd assume that the CTD is something to do with either the explosion effect or the wreck model being missing or wrongly set up, but in this case why doesn't the static Pak40 crash multiplayer games as well?...
This occurs to me every time I get a CTD the instant the vehicle I'm in is destroyed by a shell. I always dismiss it though due to there being no problem with it in MP... :-\

Offline Drawde

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #112 on: 17-04-2010, 21:04:55 »
I think I've fixed the Pak40 CTD:
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=6081.msg107667

This occurs to me every time I get a CTD the instant the vehicle I'm in is destroyed by a shell. I always dismiss it though due to there being no problem with it in MP... :-\

Can you remember any vehicles in particular that CTDed? It's possible they might have the same problem as the Pak40. I know I've twice got CTDs in Luttich at the instant my vehicle was destroyed by an AT rocket (once in a M3 halftrack, the second time in a Puma) but neither of these vehicles usually cause any problem, whilst the static Pak40 CTDs at least two-thirds of the time when destroyed (regardless of whether anyone's manning it)

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #113 on: 18-04-2010, 05:04:11 »
I was in a Sherman (II?...the one that spawns at Le Pri) and was shot by the Tiger...CTD as soon as the shell hit.

I've had it happen to me in halftracks and other tanks as well, but I don't recall the specifics.

Offline djinn

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #114 on: 18-04-2010, 10:04:36 »
dang... say it isn't so... I thought we had found our magic bullet

maybe the same solution might work?

Offline djinn

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #115 on: 23-04-2010, 12:04:20 »
So I reduced the effect of the PIAT to 0 against everything, applied the change for the PAK guns, played for like 15 minutes then when the action got intense, mostly tank-to-tank it CTDd

One thing I did note was PIATers were still PIATing, quite a bit, firing at Panthers and KT kitties inspite of being explicit 'orders' not to do so

Don't know if that was the cause of the CTD, but it eint working for me this Goodwood fixes

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #116 on: 23-04-2010, 16:04:03 »
Did you change the right values?

Out of habit, I initially changed the ones in the stock zip files, not the ones in the "AITweak..." files. It wasn't until it CTD on me that I realized my error.

Offline djinn

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #117 on: 23-04-2010, 16:04:18 »
well, that explains it... boy, I feel sheepish

Will try that, want to get a massive tank battle on finally and cross that dang Raiway with Allied troops for the first time since Winterhilf's spawn-changes...

But I do find it odd though... that bots use the PIATs at all. I thought it caused the CTD when they TRIED to use them, according to Drawde
« Last Edit: 24-04-2010, 09:04:10 by djinn »

Offline Drawde

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #118 on: 23-04-2010, 19:04:03 »
I honestly don't know what it is about the PIAT that causes the CTD. Bots definitely manage to use it successfully some of the time, as I've seen PIAT kill messages when playing Goodwood 64 with it enabled.
There are a number of bits of data found in the bazooka + panzerschreck .tweak files but not the PIAT, adding these has had no effect on the CTD however.

I'm wondering if there might be a more general AI issue related to bazooka-type weapons, since I've twice got CTDs when killed with them on Luttich. This and Goodwood are the only current maps where bots get to use them to any extent.
But I can't see what it could be that's only causing CTDs when bots use these weapons, but not human players. It may have something to do with weapon switching, or possibly reloading animations - the Panzerfaust is the only one that doesn't appear to cause any problem.

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: operation goodwood
« Reply #119 on: 24-04-2010, 12:04:34 »
...Will try that, want to get a massive tank battle on finally and cross that dang Raiway with Allied troops for the first time since Winterhilf's spawn-changes...

But I do find it odd though... that bots use the PIATs at all. I thought it caused the CTD when they TRIED to use them, according to Drawde
Pfft...good luck. My asshole still hurts from the round I just played...

Started off by clearing the Germans out of Le Mes, and taking Le Pri and Cagny West. Within 10 minutes, they'd pushed us all the way back to the main and pinned us there for most of the round. Managed to take Le Pri and Le Mes back a few times (never both at the same time), and at one point both Le Pri and Cagny West, but couldn't hold them for long.

Got killed six times (in a tank) inside the ABC area, twice before I'd even gotten to the first hedgerow on my way to Le Pri... :P

Curse bots and their x-ray vision... :)


And I've seen the bots use the Piat before, not very often though. Pretty sure I've been on the receiving end once or twice too.


@Drawde: Maybe the Piat's problem lies in the projectile, not the weapon itself... :-\


Almost forgot to mention, I've only tried once so far, but I got a CTD halfway through the round when I played on the German side.