Author Topic: Winning the Single Player  (Read 2649 times)

Offline Zoologic

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Winning the Single Player
« on: 04-10-2009, 08:10:37 »
SP can be fun too! Sure playing against humans is what BF is all about, but consider this: several times in your life, you've spent quite a lot of money buying WW2 FPS games. Sure, they're fun, they can tell stories, they have good graphics. But you'll eventually get bored. Because the enemy will always come from that particular direction, the friendlies will only do that and wait for your actions. It is limited!

With the magic of "free" BF concept. A lot of things can happen in SP mode, not to mention that FH2's graphic has surpassed the level of our long time WW2 FPS favourites. And like SP games there is a guide and how-to play against the bots.

I noticed that bots do have coordinated attacks, which perhaps is incidental or not intended to be like that. It is fascinating, considering how stupid the vanilla bots are, although vanilla bots understand and adheres to issued orders much more than the partially deaf FH2 bots.

I don't know how the devs put navmesh on the map, however some of the strategies that bots often use really put drawbacks that need some attention. I need some other accounts as well, otherwise it is probably only on my CPU. BTW, this in FH2.2 And i will put every suggestions and feedback in the appropriate section.

El Alamein 64

The game begins with each bot storming their favorite positions.
German bots usually take every Panzers and advance through their favourite route: West side of Deir al Dhib, and continue to march across the fortified pass between Kidney and Miteiriya Ridges, heading towards the only non German flags on the beginning: Tell al Makh Khad. Their support vehicles mostly drive to Deir al Dhib and abandoned, then randomly mans any AA emplacements there or do some random stupid bot stuffs (e.g. stuck in flag pole, manning and exiting Flak18 continuously, trapped in foxhole position, driving a vehicle around the base for a very long time before leaving). Some continue to climb Kidney Ridge before being destroyed by advancing British tanks.

British bots drive all of their vehicles into both Kidney Ridge and Miteiriya Ridge. Sometimes they flank the Miteiriya Ridge from the east side, backcapping Deir al Dhib which rarely get panzer support on this side (usually the Germans drive through the west side). The panzers that drive close by Deir al Dhib will help defend the base, but rare. Some bots that drive east side, climbed Miteiriya, which is most of the times unoccupied by the German bots. While the ones passing between the ridges met the German panzers head on.



In the middle of the game...
It is pretty intense long-distance tank combat map in SP. Most of the fights occurred in the pass between the ridges. You could mine this place if no opposition is not in line of fire and get assured kills (either friendlies or foes). This always happens like this. The initiative is always in British's hands: if they didn't flank, they'll win by numbers in the battle between the ridge. If they flank, they will certainly get to cap Deir al Dhib and Miteiriya Ridge from the Gemans, since the bots don't man the AT/AA emplacements correctly. The Germans will then have to fight the British remnants and desperately defend the Kidney Ridge before eventually losing it.

How it usually ends...
Ticket bleed, British major advantage, German minor advantage
The British found no difficulties in winning the war, despite the usual German armour superiority. The British have advantage in numbers and perhaps it is because the Sherman 2s can own Panzer IIIs easily. The decisive battle is in the fight between the ridges. If Germans win the battle (which is rare, but usually because of your air support), it doesn't mean you can win as the Germans. Tell al-Makh Khad will prove to be a major setback for the Germans. The British bots will continuously spawn there and defend it at all costs before counter attacking and denying the Germans from ticket-bleeding the British.
The Germans have to kill more and set killing zones for the British to win by ticket ratio. It is hard for the Germans to maintain ticket bleed, thus they need more kills.

Tips for players:
In German side:
  • The battle is pretty determined by the British bot's move. The Germans is always losing, even if you played as one. The Germans could have a chance to win if you defend the Miteiriya Ridge post and successfully repel the British from capping it. Sometimes you have to do it alone, since the bots only spawns there when ordered to defend that position. And after that, they mostly go to the pass between the ridges straight away. So you'll always be alone.
  • Kidney Ridge will change hands numerous times. Don't bother spawning there or trying to defend it, except to get easy kill scores.
  • Deir al Dhib is in danger when Miteiriya Ridge is lost, so watch the eastern flank. If you loose yourself in the battle and ignore this You'll get a nasty surprise. Most of the times the British successfully positioned 2-3 tanks or vehicles inside the base without any effective resistance. It is pretty safe to AT-mine this position since friendly vehicles rarely pass through the area (except the friendly Hanomag), so mining near the flag post will be the best idea.
  • Trying to cap Tell al-Makh Khad is risky. Better spawn-rape the base instead of taking it. The German wins by ticket ratio and rarely by bleed.

In British side:
  • Get Miteiriya Ridge! It is easier to defend and hard to attack.
  • It is easy for the British to get Kidney Ridge and defend it. But once abandoned, the Germans will cap it. So, to defend this post, you need to be there. It is easier to defend this post as British than Germans. Because most of the Germans have to drive a bit north first and expose their rear to the British before entering the Kidney ridge, thus making them soft targets for British armor.
  • If you want to attack Deir al Dhib, drive eastwards, to the corner of the map, east of Miteiriya Ridge, and then attack from there. The German panzers rarely drives here. They only do it when an order to defend/attack Miteiriya issued by their commander, but it is rare. Some of the panzers heading for the pass between Miteiriya and Kidney Ridges will drive close by Deir al Dhib, don't worry. They'll fight you, but a good tanker can win easily. And in addition, the German bots defending their positions seem to cannot shoot the notorious Flak18 properly.
  • Watch the skies if you are a tanker, the Stuka is more dangerous than enemy panzers.
  • The British mostly won by maintaining the bleed. Defend your positions and maintain the bleed for the Germans!

Other General tips (also applies for many other maps):

The Sdkfz. 222 seemed to haven't been coded to be used by the bots yet. Because they are always available all of the time. This is guaranteed to always be your vehicle. (edit: bots do use this vehicle, but only at the beginning)

The bots loved Chevy .30 CWT and Bedford/Opel Trucks so much, this is also true for the Germans. Bots manning these vehicles are easy targets for enemy tankers/AT soldiers. Kill the Chevies so bots cannot use them. You can't do anything with the trucks.

Don't man the static AA guns for too long. If you fail to destroy enemy aircrafts on their first pass, the second, they are guaranteed to drop a sure-kill accurate bomb on you.

Bots in FH2.2 use smokes, best not to do a killfest/spawn rape from static positions.

If we expect something like FH0.7 or BF1942 bots, which is bot storming nearest capable positions. You are mostly correct. They mostly don't do MacArthur's frog leaping. The only exception is when you issued an order (thus i love BF2 SP more!)

Some bots are named after FH devs. Have fun picking your targets. I only recognize J. McGibney and B Sintmarteen.

Next... Luettich.
« Last Edit: 06-10-2009, 16:10:57 by ZooMotorpool »

Offline djinn

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Re: Winning the Single Player
« Reply #1 on: 05-10-2009, 11:10:09 »
Yes, indeed and nice opening... I think you hit the nail right on the head - Bot gaming is actually fun because it relies on logistics and tactics as compaared to lone wolfing skills like other FPSs - And depending on your tactics, the bot commander's tactics alternate so no 2 games are exactly alike
Less in FH2 than 1 to some extent since you wont get arty firing for nickels


In Fh1, you could place a self propelled artillery piece on a ridge overlooking a pass or a section of the battlefield and have it shelling enemy positions to aid your team to advance... And it makes a BIG difference to how things play out

In Alamein FH2, however the battlefield, more so than 1's El Al, is divided into corridors

One being the area Easy of Kidney ridge, the other being the scarely used area east of meteiriya ridge. The latter section is a no-fly zone for any team not in control of that flag since the 88s in that area will pummel anything flying overhead in 1 direct shot

Capturing Kidney ridge puts your team at an advantage irrespective of which side you belong as it gives you a panoramic view of the battlefield all the way up to the edge of Meteiriya and overlooking Tell el Makh Khad, a perfect position for arty barrage and AT work on either front

If you are the Brits however, you wont be able to defend Meteiriya from here as you would barely see the Germans going in that direction, however, the Jerries wont be able to protect Meteririya from there either since the Tommies advance from its eastern flank.

Stukas are useless with bots as of 2.2 and will scarely attack any target - Howevever, the Beaufighter will pound Panzers between the ridges with impunity, gliding in and out of flak bursts in a manner even more deft than any other fighter on the battlefield. Balanced, however is the Me109 which attacks ground targets more often than its British counterparts.

As Germans, you need all the tanks you can get to push the Brits from the Ridge, especially if you wish to continue to capture Tell El, the lynchpin of the Allied strength.

Forget Meteiriya for the time being, the allies seldom launch meaningful attacks from there, and the 8ss @ Deir el will pulverize any solo tank coming from that direction... just make sure it is actually defended.

Support your axis comerades with HE shells when approaching Tell El to keep those sticky-bomb wielding Brits off the advancing force. take out Shermans as first priority with capped AP rounds and take out about-face (Facing you) AT guns, occupied or not - The Tommies actually use them quite effectively... JUST MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD NUMBER OF TANKS! And watch out for Kidney if you haven't captured it, the Brits tend to park tanks there to repulse any attack on Tell El, hitting you in the flanks.

Once you capture Tell El, pat yourself on the back for taking this hard point and hold it against a counter-attack. You need to pour in strong tanks to take on Shermans, try to cap a working AA or SDK222 to repel marauding Beaus and use the AT guns facing NE effectively, saving them against flanking attacks

Tactical considerations
  • don't underestimate German AT riflemen, their rifles have a greater chance of pulverizing Crusaders than the British Boys Panzers.

  • Keep British infantry at bay at all costs
  • This is the worst map to use a Panzer II, even worse than in Seige of Tobruk
  • Watch out for the Beau
  • As Brits, note the 88 position @ Deir el Dhib
  • As Germans, spot any Shermans on ther battlefield and nuke it ASAP
  • As infantry try to lookout for distance targets, and stay clear of tanks - Try to take out heavy tanks with AT explosives only if they are focused on taking out other tanks, not infantry (They will notice you as a higher priority if you get too close)
  • Leave your Boys rifle @ home, use these only for infantry @ long range as well as Trucks - If you find yourself taking out PZIIs with those things, you are wasting time on the battlefield, there are enough tanks and AT guns for faster kills

Map issues:
Ya, the fekking Stuka does squat to save the Germans
Mereiriya may need re-path-mapping to aid Germans attacking from the South-East flank
British commanders may stall the attack by sending forces against the uncappable main base - If you see a lull in the battle, this is likely why. Either become the commander, or boot him out for a while to get things rolling again... *AHEM, WinterHilf, AHEM *



« Last Edit: 05-10-2009, 12:10:58 by djinn »

Offline djinn

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Re: Winning the Single Player
« Reply #2 on: 11-10-2009, 21:10:15 »
                                          Battle of sfakia

    Probably a fitting AI for a wonderfully designed map. I would recommend only playing as Germans on this map though, otherwise it becomes a horrible cake walk. Not neccesarily the AI - Its just a terribly difficult map for Jerry to beat, both in MP and SP. The Germans start from the cliffs, hills and right over the bulge and its only you are a few seconds away from a heated engagement, which doesn't quit till the last Tommy is dead. Get used to fighting an enemy you wont always see. Decide your plan of strategy and carry out without delay. The Germans bleed until the cap flags all the way down to the Town i.e 4/7 flags
    Summery: You will love this battle, but you'll probably lose :-P


    Decide your particular line of action. This map for the most part, exists on a slope and depending on which part of the slope you attack from, you may cap a base with massive reisistance, or not at all... Ok, that's all the mountain training we can give you.. Besides to say, *chuckling at the no-brainer he's about to put foward* don't - die- by - falling - off - a - cliff

    General strategy    
    • Move fast in a fire fight
    • Don't stand in the open for too long, use you dash key quite a bit, but leave enough to 'get outta there in the nick of time'... trust me, you'll know once you play.

    • Once you decide your line of action move like you have a purpose. Don't stop for nothing - Move, move, move
    • Move like a soldier - Trust me, these enemy grunts are killers. Once you hear a bren, take cover, then return fire
    • Try to keep a squad close to you at all times. Keep the fight going, but let them do the fighting. Note that some spots wont allow squad spawning so if alot of guys from your team are dead but aren't spawning its because they want to spawn on you, but can't until you are in a better spawn location. Bots on this map spawn in groups more often than as single indivuals

    Specific strategy
    If you decide to take the NW flag first, try to choose a weapon that allows you to take the fight to the enemy. I will recommend an mg or an smg. Use nades if you have them to kill off the enemy right at the base first, then move in quickly before bots not directly guarding the base hear you and move in. Alternatively, you may want to let the bots move away and then move in. But I wont recommend it. The clock is ticking, and there is usually at least one unseen bot lying in wait. Don't be fooled!, these bots can climb those cliffs and even outfliank you.

    After this flag, you may either want to hit the enemy head-on i.e. attacking the center base. The drawback about this is, you have one tough fight ahead of you. The good side is, once this flag falls, it becomes easier for your team to attack on multiple fronts ie. SE and SW. The terrible, once you cap the SE base, you will have to fight against a terrible force coming off the side of the East-most base, fgihting from a bad position.

    Note that after capping the middle base, you need to somehow attack, while preventing an enemy counter-attack. I recommend moving SE, although the SW distance is closer and less guarded. This is because, once you take that next flag it is alot easier to take the monastry than if you took the SW town flag. What is more, taking that flag is easier from either direction.

    Alternatively
    If you decide to attack from the North-East, you will take what would seem like a completely undefended flag in the outskirts of the town, but waitlong enough and you wil be hit by sniper-like bots cmong from the monastry and the hills. After you cap this flag, you can rest assured you wont get a counter-attack on it for quite some time, and you will now have 1/4 of the flags you need to cap to stop the bleed.

    Move on up and cap the monastry. There is only one way I can see you doing this without getting killed by some bren gunner or rifleman with good aim and quick reflexes. Move along the Eastern edge, emerging from the North-Eastern side of the flag and move down the hil right next to that wall quickly and wait a while. If your squad is doing what it should, it shouldn't take long before they begin spawning on you and attempting to take the main entrance. Don't under-estimate the defenders or you will lose your squad right there. Alternatively, you can go round back and get into the buidling itself. but keep a low key.

    If you cap this base, you have one more tough fight, before it gets easy - Your team will be fighting frantically against the mid-base defenders and with your actions, they will torn between defending the SE base below the monastry and repeling the advance in the North. You might have an extra flag cap if the attackers win their battle. Otherwise you need to take on the SE flag by yourself... with whatever members of your squad and whatever random squad fights alongside you.

    Move quickly down the cliff, using any tree as cover and move to the beach. Don't stay there long or your team will lose that frefight and you will be killed soon after. Move up quickly and take the flag by occupying the building rightr next to it. Or you could go North and come down that way, which is a bit easier if you can cover your Western flank from defenders of the center base. OR you can support the attackers by sniping infantry from the tower overlooking the base - But you need to be real tactical about eack kill

    The best way to win this map is to kill ALL Brit soldiers - Trust me, you can almost never get them to bleed fast enough to stop them counter-attacking... succesfully, against one of your flag points or fast enough to prevent your team from taking enough casualties to lose.. Oh, you better believe it, baby... you will lose if you don't do a complete mop up

    The last base you should leave MUST be the coastal base... It is the easiest to take, even with all Tommies spawning righ there, and it contains them from sneaking around and capping any other base, but you must direct the assault.

    You may also decide to move in from the NW base and cap it before the town base is capped, but then you wont be able to prevent the enemy if he breaks through your lines and caps a back base.

    If you CAN win this map, I should buy you a beer... What is more, you are probably ready to take on humans... Trust me, its that tough to beat.

    Tactical considerations
    • The Tommy tank has little tactical value but it can be darn annoying if someone doesn't take it out and it will move around all the way from the NE base to the Monastry courtesy of this maps excellent pathmapping, good for gameplay, bad for you if you are German.
    • Almost all kits, save for perhaps AT, come into good use in this map. MGs can cover streets or defend buidlngs, smgs take the fight to the enemy, grenades can clear defenders or entire squads attacking, AT bombs can stop a counter-attack on the town dead in its tracks and riflemen are the best in the mountain ranges

    Map issue
    Save for a very small chance of bots getting entangled in the bed frame outside the NW base, this map has perfect AI teamwork, pathmapping and logic - Don't you ever change this map - Bizness did a perfect job on this one ;-)[/list]
    « Last Edit: 11-10-2009, 21:10:13 by djinn »

    Offline von.small

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #3 on: 22-10-2009, 13:10:39 »
    jeez-christ djinn you got 'wall of text' diarrhoea today? Great posts though, took me both sandwiches to read it all.
    HadrianBT - Why the hell would "Germany" attack pigmy ppl??!!
    Thorondor123 - I agree that people are not wearing enough hats

    Offline Paasky

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #4 on: 22-10-2009, 14:10:47 »
    OR Take a crusader 3, cap that flag next to their main, and one shot everything coming out of it. Bots are idiots with tanks (if the human player is any good with tanks)
    It's half naked people on boats. That's all.
    Here in Finland we call that "summer".

    Offline djinn

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #5 on: 22-10-2009, 23:10:56 »
    Well, you can do something like that but it will be an exploit and wont do much for gameplay save for rubbing your ego

    Offline General_Henry

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #6 on: 23-10-2009, 16:10:31 »
    OR Take a crusader 3, cap that flag next to their main, and one shot everything coming out of it. Bots are idiots with tanks (if the human player is any good with tanks)

    don't take shermans, they are less capable of owning bots..

    GuitarCrazyo

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    Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #7 on: 31-10-2009, 17:10:02 »
    I  shoot  once  a  week.   I  shoot  at an  FOP  range.   All  types  of  shooting  are  a  go.   Not  fancy but  you  can  shoot  day  or  night.   You  have  to  have  your  own  stand.   Mine  has  a  4x4  opening.   Within  it  I  place  standard  targets  for  target  practice  and  SWAT  targets  for  point  shooting; 12  for  draw  and  hip  shooting,  21  for  two  handed  eye  level  point  shooting.   I  also  practice one  handed  strong  and  weak  and  off  handed  two  hands.   I  shoot  about  75  rounds  a  week.
    Im  here  because I take  what  were  doing  very  seriously.   I  practice there  for  the  same  reason.   Id  shoot  more  rounds  thru  my  guns  if  I  could  afford it...tough  to  be  poor.
    I  should  be  skinnier  but  Im  not.   Should  shoot  more  but  I  cant.
    Most  here  appear,  to  me,  very  intelligent.   I  dont  need  to  point  out  the  three  hundred  pound  women  on  the  beach  in  a  string  bikini,  if  you  get  my  drift?  Though  its  a  great  post  and  I  am  interested to  hear  how  others  practice too.
    Thank  you.

    Offline djinn

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #8 on: 01-11-2009, 19:11:56 »
    I'm so lost with that last post

    Offline Torenico

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #9 on: 01-11-2009, 22:11:29 »
    I  shoot  once  a  week.   I  shoot  at an  FOP  range.   All  types  of  shooting  are  a  go.   Not  fancy but  you  can  shoot  day  or  night.   You  have  to  have  your  own  stand.   Mine  has  a  4x4  opening.   Within  it  I  place  standard  targets  for  target  practice  and  SWAT  targets  for  point  shooting; 12  for  draw  and  hip  shooting,  21  for  two  handed  eye  level  point  shooting.   I  also  practice one  handed  strong  and  weak  and  off  handed  two  hands.   I  shoot  about  75  rounds  a  week.
    Im  here  because I take  what  were  doing  very  seriously.   I  practice there  for  the  same  reason.   Id  shoot  more  rounds  thru  my  guns  if  I  could  afford it...tough  to  be  poor.
    I  should  be  skinnier  but  Im  not.   Should  shoot  more  but  I  cant.
    Most  here  appear,  to  me,  very  intelligent.   I  dont  need  to  point  out  the  three  hundred  pound  women  on  the  beach  in  a  string  bikini,  if  you  get  my  drift?  Though  its  a  great  post  and  I  am  interested to  hear  how  others  practice too.
    Thank  you.

    Practice what?

    I think you posted in the wrong place mate


    Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #10 on: 02-11-2009, 04:11:01 »
    I  shoot  once  a  week.   I  shoot  at an  FOP  range.   All  types  of  shooting  are  a  go.   Not  fancy but  you  can  shoot  day  or  night.   You  have  to  have  your  own  stand.   Mine  has  a  4x4  opening.   Within  it  I  place  standard  targets  for  target  practice  and  SWAT  targets  for  point  shooting; 12  for  draw  and  hip  shooting,  21  for  two  handed  eye  level  point  shooting.   I  also  practice one  handed  strong  and  weak  and  off  handed  two  hands.   I  shoot  about  75  rounds  a  week.
    Im  here  because I take  what  were  doing  very  seriously.   I  practice there  for  the  same  reason.   Id  shoot  more  rounds  thru  my  guns  if  I  could  afford it...tough  to  be  poor.
    I  should  be  skinnier  but  Im  not.   Should  shoot  more  but  I  cant.
    Most  here  appear,  to  me,  very  intelligent.   I  dont  need  to  point  out  the  three  hundred  pound  women  on  the  beach  in  a  string  bikini,  if  you  get  my  drift?  Though  its  a  great  post  and  I  am  interested to  hear  how  others  practice too.
    Thank  you.
    You are the best.  Officially.

    Offline :| Hi

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    Re: Winning the Single Player
    « Reply #11 on: 02-11-2009, 04:11:20 »
    This isn't the forum your looking for pal *waves hand while saying

    but if it is, make a topic about shooting guns in the Off-Topic section and welcome to the Forum

    [2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3