Author Topic: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2  (Read 42521 times)

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #30 on: 22-10-2009, 11:10:02 »
And they never get in deep enough... just at the door - I think they much prefer to fire at you from outside - And if there were commander arty- You'd get aloty of that if ever you entered any house.

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #31 on: 25-10-2009, 14:10:13 »
Any new AI modifications and Maps to test, ei WinterHilf? Goodwood, maybe?

EDIT: At least fixed ctd code for Goodwood? But that's a personal request, not a test-request... Otherwise, keep em coming, keep em coming - beta testing eint the same if not frequent :-)
« Last Edit: 25-10-2009, 20:10:50 by djinn »

Offline Michael Z Freeman

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #32 on: 31-10-2009, 12:10:47 »
Hello !

Thanks for SP so far. Been enjoying myself in there and I'm almost speechless as usual by the quality of the FH mod.

I was testing some maps from the old FHSP beta release and I was surprised to find that some of them copy across to the new release and seem stable. I saw one minor error - an anti tank soldier with two anti tank guns on his shoulder ... I don't know, maybe he was feeling energetic that day, but it looked like an error.

These ....

bardia\
gazala\
sidi_rezegh\
alam_halfa\

So those might provide some basis for future work (note: thanks to Redsand for the original release of these).

Another thing I noticed, in FH1 BG1942 was spotter binoculars in a bunker next to a mortar. So you could spot with those and then nip round to the mortar and get a camera view. I wonder if there is some way of doing this in FH2 so at least the player can target their own artillery even if bots can't ? 

Offline NTH

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #33 on: 31-10-2009, 23:10:09 »


Another thing I noticed, in FH1 BG1942 was spotter binoculars in a bunker next to a mortar. So you could spot with those and then nip round to the mortar and get a camera view. I wonder if there is some way of doing this in FH2 so at least the player can target their own artillery even if bots can't ? 

Long time no hear, Barney.
You can spot for yourself.
Did a few times myself. Mind you, it did involve me dying and quickly spawn at the arty pieces.


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
(From: First in the Field, Gault of the Patricias by Jeffery Williams, page 72.)

Offline Michael Z Freeman

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #34 on: 01-11-2009, 21:11:50 »
Long time no hear, Barney.
You can spot for yourself.
Did a few times myself. Mind you, it did involve me dying and quickly spawn at the arty pieces.

Hello ! Of course. Spot and then suicide and spawn near artillery. Brutal and hacky but I guess it works. I'll have to try this one. I wonder if you can create a dummy vehicle remotely attached between spotter and artillery and then switch positions ? Or a dummy object that would send you to the arty ?

Offline CBCRonin

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #35 on: 02-11-2009, 02:11:55 »
Binos with the mortar kit would be very nice, especially for SP and possibly even for those that play online.

(Though a good play test, evaluating whether it would over power the kit, would have to be conducted.)

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #36 on: 03-11-2009, 11:11:35 »
More importantly would be to figure a way to make em fire arty - Mortar and howitzers. The rest is just coloured bubbles...


Offline Michael Z Freeman

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #37 on: 03-11-2009, 12:11:53 »
Your opinion of course. I see that this desire to make bots fire everything does not give the SP something to do. It may be possible I suppose to have bots react to spotting and fire on targets but all the reports I've seen suggest that the tech to do that is simply not in the BF2 engine. A better thing might be to at least give the SP the ability to fire targetted / ranged artillery themselves to cover the AI.

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #38 on: 03-11-2009, 14:11:19 »
On some maps (not all), it's just not the same without arty.

Quote
...have bots react to spotting and fire on targets but all the reports I've seen suggest that the tech to do that is simply not in the BF2 engine.
AFAIK the bots need to be able to see their target before they'll shoot at it.

I see 3 options for the arty:

1...Get the bots to spot. E.g. have them equip their "weapon" (binocs) and "shoot" (spot).

Problem: Limiting the amount of times they spot/shoot. Otherwise you'd end up with dozens of targets to sift through.

2...Give control of the arty to the AI commander. E.g. make the stationary arty commander assets.

Instead of firing only when losing a flag, have it fire randomly in the general area of flags held by the enemy. That'd add a bit of unpredictability to SP... :)

Problem: Don't know if it's technically possible.

3...Like CBCRonin said, put some binocs in the mortar kit.

Problem: It's obvious...if your close enough to be able to spot the enemy, you're within his firing range...

I'd like it to be option 1, so I don't have to resort to dumb-firing the arty when I want to use it, but option 3 seems the most likely.
« Last Edit: 03-11-2009, 14:11:21 by cannonfodder »

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #39 on: 03-11-2009, 14:11:00 »
I understand the limitations. But well, it is a great loss in Fh2 where FH1 really got it right - The sheer arty pounding and tanks doing both HE and AP in one short were quite effective in covering the ineffectivness of the bots' AI.

In FH2, rifling is alot better, and bots seem like they are less of vegetables than their FH1 counterparts... Would be a big mistake to avoid pathmapping buildings as that will bring them closer to the latter's dismal thinking, but arty is the real winner

The effect of total war involving air support, armor, infantry and arty is what reall does it - Tanks in FH2 are, let's face it, more stupid than one since they can't hit well at range and close in too much for interesting tank combat. Arty, if any of the theories were possible, will really do it for the battefield and tactics.

Whereas having bots use binocs seem simple enuff in theory (I mean, their FH1 counterparts did it), it is even more of a theory IF they will 'shoot' just once and consider it a succesful hit the first time rather than binoc-spam.

Abilty for bots to fire arty based on player targetting is even slimmer a chance since they will have to react to the player first and foremost, a thing FH2 bots do worse than even vanilla. Then they will need to translate the spot into coordinates to aim and fire at noting that they are indeed firing at a target and should fire until its gone... quite alot to process for our little logic side-liners, I'd say


now some work-around for them to fire... irrespective of if they are blocked or not is the one thing I personally think can be achieved by some trick of sorts. After all, I'm sure like their predeccesors, they are limited in sight only by the coder's idea of how far they should see... and what is more, I'm sure they'd miss alot more than Fh1 bots, which is as realistic as we want them, really

Offline Ionizer

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #40 on: 04-11-2009, 03:11:45 »
1...Get the bots to spot. E.g. have them equip their "weapon" (binocs) and "shoot" (spot).

Problem: Limiting the amount of times they spot/shoot. Otherwise you'd end up with dozens of targets to sift through.

You realize that every person who has binocs can only have one spot active at a time, right?  If there are 5 bots with the scout kits, the max amount of spots you could ever get is 5.  The last spot given is the one one that shows up for the arty gunner.  This is how it works in MP, and I don't see why it wouldn't work in SP the same way.

Also, as to why bots in FH1 could spot and use arty and ones in FH2 can't, you need to remember that the entire arty system in FH2 is completely made by the FH2 Devs.  BF2 had no arty functions (hell, I don't even know if it had binoculars) other than the commander arty.  The FH2 Arty seems to work completely through python scripts and the bot's AI might not be able to read those.  If I remember correctly, the Kit Limits don't work correctly for bots either, and those are keyed off Python Code as well...  BF1942 had Spotter/Arty Gunner stuff built into the engine, hence why bots could use it in FH1.
 

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #41 on: 04-11-2009, 06:11:48 »
I was thinking... isn't it just possible to have bots on arty 'see' as far as the gun range.. ie. like FH1's arty range - And let them not care about obstractions save for those directly next to them

Cuz its so, so sad not to have functional artillery in FH2.... Its so much less arcade than FH1's.. I so wish bots would ue them ingame

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #42 on: 05-11-2009, 07:11:42 »
You realize that every person who has binocs can only have one spot active at a time, right?

No, I didn't realize that. Well that removes the problem, so I'd say that's the way to go. Unless it's easier just to put binocs in the mortar kit.

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #43 on: 05-11-2009, 09:11:14 »
Like Ionizer said...

Unlike FH1/BF42, BF2 never had manned artillery so the idea of spotting and spots (Maybe even binocs) is new to FH2

New, as in BRAND new, cuz there was no architecture that was even borrowed to create it. Binocs borrow from sniper rifle scopes, sticky bombd borrow from c4... but binoc spots is a new concept as is zeroing the arty sights

Arty in Fh1, as far the engine is concerned is simply huge AT guns (like the stationary AT weapon in vanilla) with low velocity HE projectiles... now for bots to know this, requires them to see targets they can hit - in plane sight


Imagine making a Wanted mod where riflemen can fire across the map with the curve in the projectile (bullet) being considered for targets really far off ie. units clearly not in sight, and over the horizon... if you  can, then you can tell how hard it is for arty to fire - Now bots using spots is adding entire snippets of code to what what bots are allowed to do -

Now they should be able to 'see' using the over-sized AT gun pictures of positions tele-copied by binoc users soemwhere else on the map altogether... that's just concept, now imagine coding it... if even possible

It sure is an option, don't get me wrong - But just realise how novel it is

That's why I wanted WinterHilf to try and see how it was possible to let bots 'see' targets well over the horizon once they were on arty and fire based on this - It would require bots realising its actually ok to fire at targets which are not in direct line of sight, but can notwithstanding be seen

Offline winterhilf

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Re: Singleplayer in Forgotten Hope 2
« Reply #44 on: 05-11-2009, 22:11:46 »
Afaik it's based on the weapon's line of fire, if "you" can't see it, neither can bots, so they won't fire.
Tried a few tweaks with the mortar but to no avail, I know Bizness spent some time on it too.
Also, Dice's 1.5 patch has broken the ai commander.