Picture of the Day (Other eras)

[VonMudra]

"Accidentally"

Aka "I believe in conspiracy theories rather than that accidents and friendly fire happen in warfare, especially when both sides are basically un-uniformed militias that are near impossible to tell apart"


The DeZ garrison has performed admirably, but it is likely that without the mixture of Coalition, Russian, and Syrian air support, that they would have lost.  ISIL has made repeated attempts to neutralize it, and failed every time due to massive air campaigns by the US and Russia to keep it afloat.  Now, it looks like we're going to be settling in to a Mosul/Raqqah-like taking of Deir Ez Zur- probably over a period of a month or two, and with all the casualties that will have.

[pizzzaman]

Siege is about to be lifted soon, only 15 km give or take. Very fast.

@VonMudra: I agree with Torencio on this one. The US has always been against Assad's government since the beginning of the conflict. Any setback the SAA gets greatly helps the US-backed forces in Syria.

[Wilhelm]

Siege is about to be lifted soon, only 15 km give or take. Very fast.

@VonMudra: I agree with Torencio on this one. The US has always been against Assad's government since the beginning of the conflict. Any setback the SAA gets greatly helps the US-backed forces in Syria.

I think it is nonsense to believe the US in that incident would intentionally weaken the SAA over ISIS.  It makes far more sense to let the two keep each other occupied if your goal was to weaken both.  It was an accident, clear and simple. ISIS is a much bigger concern than the SAA for the US coalition.

If I am not mistaken, hasn't the coalition bombed SAA-aligned forces when they tried to push against US-backed opposition forces which had US advisors/special forces among them?  The US only cares about the SAA when it is directly infringing on their operations, which Deir ez Zor does not.

[VonMudra]

Siege is about to be lifted soon, only 15 km give or take. Very fast.

@VonMudra: I agree with Torencio on this one. The US has always been against Assad's government since the beginning of the conflict. Any setback the SAA gets greatly helps the US-backed forces in Syria.

I think it is nonsense to believe the US in that incident would intentionally weaken the SAA over ISIS.  It makes far more sense to let the two keep each other occupied if your goal was to weaken both.  It was an accident, clear and simple. ISIS is a much bigger concern than the SAA for the US coalition.

If I am not mistaken, hasn't the coalition bombed SAA-aligned forces when they tried to push against US-backed opposition forces which had US advisors/special forces among them?  The US only cares about the SAA when it is directly infringing on their operations, which Deir ez Zor does not.

Bingo.  The US long ago gave up any semblance of ousting Assad, public announcements not withstanding.  The only clear hits on SAA forces have been those approaching US bases/skirmishing with SDF south of al Tabqah some months ago, and the US even pulled almost entirely out of Syria in al Tanf shortly after the strikes there, after it became clear that the Syrian rebels there were not interested in fighting ISIL (especially after we offered to ferry them to SDF-held areas).  We have constantly provided aerial support around Deir ez Zur and other areas in support of SAA efforts against ISIL.  This includes danger close missions, and some will, inevitably, hit friendly forces.  We've hit SDF forces as well, during Manbij, during al-Tabqah, during Mosul, and during Raqqah.  It is a normal part of war.

Also, of course, given that Deir Ez Zur has been a HUGE pain in the ass for ISIL, disrupting all their other campaigns everywhere else, and now disrupting their chance at creating a unified defense in the Euphrates from Ma'adaan to Al Qaim, keeping Deir Ez Zur in SAA hands is essential to the coalition's campaign against ISIL.

[Ivancic1941]

The situation went from being relatively stable to shitty when the US-led Coalition "Accidentally" bombed SAA positions and killed a number of them, almost an instant later ISIS launched an attack and managed to seize more territory, even cutting the SAA forces in half, as it stays right now.

True.

siriancivilwarmap.com reports that siege is lifted!

[VonMudra]

The situation went from being relatively stable to shitty when the US-led Coalition "Accidentally" bombed SAA positions and killed a number of them, almost an instant later ISIS launched an attack and managed to seize more territory, even cutting the SAA forces in half, as it stays right now.

True.

Can you prove something without resorting to conspiracy theories about the US supporting/creating/backing/whatever ISIL?  No?  Then it's not true.

[Torenico]

"Accidentally"

Aka "I believe in conspiracy theories rather than that accidents and friendly fire happen in warfare, especially when both sides are basically un-uniformed militias that are near impossible to tell apart"

1. Who invited the US led Coalition to bomb anyone in Syrian territory?, as far as I know, nobody. At the end of the day, this war will be remebered by how the US bombs illegally in a country without any permisson while the Russians are doing it legally, requested by the Syrian Govt.

2. It was not the first time the US-led Coalition bombed SAA positions around DeZ "by mistake". I'm not saying that the US directly aids ISIS in combat or with logistics, but their attitude is mysterious at best, same thing with the Turks, looking away when ISIS was right at their borders but now suddenly "they care".

3. Why does the US bomb Syrian Army formations moving whitin their own territory if there is no declared war?, who is the US to set up multiple Military Bases inside Syria and bomb anyone who gets near them?. They even shot down a Syrian jet not long ago, who was working on ISIS militants, but the US surely sees that Jet as a threat to their own existence and takes it down, because they fucking can. Now, what would happen if from all of sudden, a F/A-18 is shot down by the Syrian Air Defenses?, how many Tomahawks on Damascus are we talking about?. Lol, the US sees the SAA as an enemy everywhere but in DeZ, strange.


You know, it kinda reminds me of Israel bombing exclusively the Syrians while largely ignoring (and even assisting in some cases) known Yihadist groups near the Golan Heights. The US still sees Assad as their enemy, my ass they don't want to bring him down. Now they can't, mainly because Assad is stronger than ever, he has the upper hand and he has Russian and Iranian support. They lost.

[Wilhelm]

We were mainly speaking of that one specific incident in Deir Ez Zor.  No one is denying the fact that Syria is a clusterfuck, nor that the US is absolved from criticism in it's role in the conflict.  However, I believe the involvement of ISIS muddies the water a bit in arguing that the US-led coalition does not have a reason to be involved in Syria, mainly because Syria (for the most part in recent years) hasn't really existed as a governable state within most of its territory since the height of the Civil War.  Double standards definitely apply, but at this point I would rather the US be operating inside sovereign borders (illegally) fighting against a non-state entity that is a proven global threat. 

This is an example of the world being gray, rather than black and white.

Everyone involved in this conflict is guilty of double standards and dirty behavior.  That is what is unfortunate.

[pizzzaman]

Siege should be lifted soon, maybe even today. Big news.

[VonMudra]

What Wilhelm said.  Whether or not the US or Russia or anyone should be involved in the Syrian Civil War is a completly different discussion.  The point is that a conspiracy theory related to "oooo the US backed ISIL" is ridiculous and idiotic to even suggest.



In other news, yep, it looks like reports that the Siege was lifted were hasty, but it is going to happen soon.  ISIL is launching massive counter attacks to try and keep them separated for as long as possible.

[Slayer]

I'm just wondering what will happen when ISIS is defeated. It's not like all jihadists will disappear, right?

[VonMudra]

I mean, a large number of them will be killed in combat.  The rest will do what they always do, go under ground for awhile and re-emerge elsewhere, continuing to attack and bomb and etc.  ISIL will be removed as a territory holder, but it will continue to be a terrorist organization.

[Leopardi]

A different customer at the gas station

[pizzzaman]

Beginning of the end for ISIS. Siege of Deir ez Zor has been lifted.

[pizzzaman]

SDF is pushing south towards Deir ez Zor. ISIS will soon be trapped in the city between the two belligerents.