Author Topic: Nerf Panzer III!  (Read 317 times)

Offline FH2forums

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Nerf Panzer III!
« on: 11-09-2019, 06:09:50 »
Nerf Panzer III, the other day I was shooting it in the ass with an anti-tank rifle and threw sticky bombs at it but it refused to die!
I was told before that it's normal for the Sherman to deflect anti-tank rifle shots to the ass, which I still doubt to be true mind you, but the Panzer III too? c'mon! I refuse to believe it.

Offline Slayer

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #1 on: 11-09-2019, 16:09:17 »
AT rifles are only doing their job against light armor like Pz II and Vickers tankette. Even lighter vehicles like APCs and other transporets are OK targets too, but heavier armor is simply impenetrable.

If you have any good sources stating that Shermans and Pz IIs were easily penetrated by AT rifles, please post them :)

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #2 on: 11-09-2019, 16:09:28 »
Nerf Panzer III, the other day I was shooting it in the ass with an anti-tank rifle and threw sticky bombs at it but it refused to die!
I was told before that it's normal for the Sherman to deflect anti-tank rifle shots to the ass, which I still doubt to be true mind you, but the Panzer III too? c'mon! I refuse to believe it.
Armor values in FH2 are based on the real thing and Panzer III is actually better armored than Panzer IV for example, just like it was in real life. Panzer IIi's rear armor is better than its side armor (when it's usually not the case on other tanks) and AT rifles were mostly obsolete already in 1941. Not to mention that sticky bomb was pretty much improvised anti tank weapon introduced in case of possible German invasion on the British Islands expected in 1940. It was dangerous to use and not very effective.

You refuse to believe it? Who cares, you may believe in Earth being flat if you want to, but I suggest reading a book.

Offline FH2forums

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #3 on: 16-09-2019, 03:09:42 »
Nerf Panzer III, the other day I was shooting it in the ass with an anti-tank rifle and threw sticky bombs at it but it refused to die!
I was told before that it's normal for the Sherman to deflect anti-tank rifle shots to the ass, which I still doubt to be true mind you, but the Panzer III too? c'mon! I refuse to believe it.
Armor values in FH2 are based on the real thing and Panzer III is actually better armored than Panzer IV for example, just like it was in real life. Panzer IIi's rear armor is better than its side armor (when it's usually not the case on other tanks) and AT rifles were mostly obsolete already in 1941. Not to mention that sticky bomb was pretty much improvised anti tank weapon introduced in case of possible German invasion on the British Islands expected in 1940. It was dangerous to use and not very effective.

You refuse to believe it? Who cares, you may believe in Earth being flat if you want to, but I suggest reading a book.

PIII in FH2 can take several at rifle hits even from the side, while bazookas and panzerfausts destroy big tanks in one hit, its proof of the PIII being op.

PIII Ausf F had 10-30 mm armor

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer_III.php?fbclid=IwAR0unRKBzUzQ4rgl6mNOeFkZTxI5DN5X9ORY-xSvxNJc2Dbph4DglT66Dac

Boys AT rifle could pierce up to 18mm, do the math

http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinAT/FINantitank2.htm?fbclid=IwAR3DXYezD9Ymhw_KGvIu-hQi-n0s7il7n3m8GGXK3pIrfwQXjif_NNFMviQ#boys


you're the one that needs to go read a book, trash!


Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #4 on: 16-09-2019, 05:09:55 »
First off, lets not call each other trash or suggest people read a book. ::) No one's a complete idiot just because they don't know how a Boys AT rifle performs against a Panzer III Ausf F, that's not something I'd consider common knowledge :P

Second: The Boys AT rifle is unfortunately pretty useless against 'bigger' tanks like a Panzer III. This is a reflection of real life as you can read in the 1942 Boys Training Manual.

Quote
When shooting at German tanks of the Pz. Kw. Mk. III and larger tanks, fire should be aimed, if it is possible, at vulnerable points, especially on the junction point of turret and hull and gun mantle to cause burring over of working surfaces and thus produce jamming.

i.e. the manual basically told you that penetration of the tank was unlikely and that your best bet at disabling it was via more 'unorthodox' means.

The Panzer III Ausf F may have had a minimum 10mm of armor, but that was only on the turret top afaik. The rear hull had 20mm of armor sloped at 10 degrees minimum (30 degrees if you're shooting at the lower part), so slightly thicker in practice. Either way, our Boys AT rifle in-game doesn't penetrate the Ausf F because it's unlikely that a penetration would've happened & caused a significant amount of damage to disable the tank in that area with that weapon. FH2 isn't a simulator, but the COL Meshes and damage/ angle modifiers do an okay job of replicating likely outcomes.

The best bet is to use the Boys AT against softer targets and find other ways of attacking the Panzer III, with an AT gun, other tanks, planes etc...

Offline nysä

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #5 on: 16-09-2019, 14:09:19 »
Like Matthew Baker said, 10mm armour was only on the turret roof. The belly plate and chassis roof was 16mm, but otherwise the armour was 20-30mm all-around. With the introduction of Ausf. G, the rear armour was increased from 20 to 30mm (at 10-30°).
refer: Panzer Tracts 3-2.

Ed: PzKpfw III Ausf. F appears to be missing from the vehicles list http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/fh2_vehicles.php?country=1&type=1
« Last Edit: 16-09-2019, 14:09:53 by nysä »

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #6 on: 16-09-2019, 18:09:09 »
Ed: PzKpfw III Ausf. F appears to be missing from the vehicles list http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/fh2_vehicles.php?country=1&type=1
There is indeed no Panzer III F in FH2. All variants we have are even better armoured, with the earliest currently portrayed in the game being the early Ausf J model with 20mm side armour, and frontal and rear armour increased from 30 to 50mm + extra 20mm of aplique armor on late variant (50 + 20 is 70 btw, I did the math)
Boys AT rifle could pierce up to 18mm, do the math
I'm still correct. Sorry for calling you to read a book, all you needed is actually a Wikipedia page.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #7 on: 16-09-2019, 18:09:59 »
PIII in FH2 can take several at rifle hits even from the side, while bazookas and panzerfausts destroy big tanks in one hit, its proof of the PIII being op.
Btw, this proves nothing, but your lack of knowledge on the subject again.

Panzerfaust, yes. It can 1s1k any tank for most of the time (penetration up to 220mm, but effective range limited to only 30m). Though it reached battlefield only in mid 1943 and was never used in North Africa, where British still used their AT rifles until the end of the campaign due to lack of any better AT weapons.

Bazooka on the other hand wasn't all that great when first introduced, it first saw combat in North Africa (early M1 Bazooka can be seen on Sidi Bou Zid map) and it could penetrate up to 75mm of armour, but due to how HEAT projectiles work, spaced aplique armour or simple shurtzen could prevent it from penetrating otherwise vulnerable sides of german tanks. So no, Bazooka is in most of the cases not enough to destroy big tanks in one hit, definitely not a Tiger I which it can barely damage.

Offline nysä

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #8 on: 16-09-2019, 19:09:30 »
There is indeed no Panzer III F in FH2. All variants we have are even better armoured, with the earliest currently portrayed in the game being the early Ausf J model.

Actually, there is a PzKpfw III Ausf. F with 2.Panzer-Division insignia but it's not featured in any map(??), except on the North Africa firing range.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #9 on: 16-09-2019, 20:09:23 »
Actually, there is a PzKpfw III Ausf. F with 2.Panzer-Division insignia but it's not featured in any map(??), except on the North Africa firing range.
I don't think that panzer was intended to be there, if it is on any map, it might be on Mt. Olympus, but as far as I'm aware it's not coded correctly, but even if it's done properly, it's still too much for the Boys Rifle to chew :D

Offline nysä

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #10 on: 16-09-2019, 20:09:48 »
but as far as I'm aware it's not coded correctly, but even if it's done properly, it's still too much for the Boys Rifle to chew :D

You are quite right. The firing range is the right map for it, with that 8.Series/Z.W. chassis and "mixed" turret. But at least it has a 3.7 cm  :)

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Nerf Panzer III!
« Reply #11 on: 16-09-2019, 20:09:57 »
I think it is a placeholder for Olympus made from the J.