Author Topic: Blinking flag  (Read 340 times)

Offline justasug

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Blinking flag
« on: 05-12-2018, 00:12:25 »
Has there been an official explanation why the flags blink when they're being captured? I mean, why it was added to the game.

So far from what I've seen it just takes away from the game and makes it more casual. It takes a direct gameplay element where the player is involved and automates it. Specifically: before, someone had to actually be at the flag, notice an enemy and tell everyone else about it. Now that simple element is gone and the player has to watch out or cooperate with others less.
I can also see it messing up gameplay in some urban or narrow maps, where you can see it blinking and you automatically know someone is around and you go hunting for them. The flag can't suddenly go white and give you either a positive or negative "shock", depending on which end of the flag change you are.

Offline Yakovlev

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #1 on: 05-12-2018, 00:12:57 »
Yea i totaly agree with you , with the new flag blinking system we lose the element of surprise and the enemy is rushing the flag.
I prefer the old flag system because it's only rewarding teamplayers who cares about defending and communicate with other squad members , not for people who just care for attacking and getting more kills.

Offline blander

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #2 on: 05-12-2018, 00:12:12 »
It was put in place to help counter flag "pre-cappers" in push mode maps. I personally don´t like the blinking flags at all.

Offline Slayer

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #3 on: 05-12-2018, 22:12:02 »
Yea i totaly agree with you , with the new flag blinking system we lose the element of surprise and the enemy is rushing the flag.
I prefer the old flag system because it's only rewarding teamplayers who cares about defending and communicate with other squad members , not for people who just care for attacking and getting more kills.
The problem with the element of surprise, is that this mod is trying to portray WWII battles, and not some spec ops mission, where you have to sneak in and cap an objective. You have to fight at the front, kill the enemy and move forward.

The blinking flag-thing was added to help find precappers, but it also helps preventing lone jeep rushers to squadbomb a flag, something which is totally unconvincing in a WWII setting and therefore immersionkiller nr 1.

I prefer the old flag system because it's only rewarding teamplayers who cares about defending and communicate with other squad members , not for people who just care for attacking and getting more kills.
The old flag system was not rewarding defenders enough, in my opinion. In order to be successfull at defending in the old system, you had to have a full squad at every open flag in case of the lone jeep... etc. Defending in the new system needs communication too, because if the squad wanders off a flag which needs defending, you can call it back after it starts blinking. The plus side of it is that every player will see the need for retreating and defending himself. A lot better than when you had to type your explanation or scream in voip just to see your message get lost in hundreds of other messages.

Offline Nerdsturm

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #4 on: 06-12-2018, 01:12:06 »
The old flag system was not rewarding defenders enough, in my opinion. In order to be successfull at defending in the old system, you had to have a full squad at every open flag in case of the lone jeep... etc.
This is why I like the blinking flag system. A lot of FH2 maps have flags that sit open but very rarely ever get attacked, and nobody wants to sit around doing nothing for 40 minutes on the off chance that a stray jeep might come along.

It also helps with some counter-attack cases like British flags on Supercharge, where the Brits have no difficulty defending their flags overall but it used to be possible for stray Germans to sometimes sneak in and steal a flag while most of the Brits are off attacking the next line. This totally screwed up the flow of the map but is pretty well prevented now.

Offline GeoPat

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #5 on: 06-12-2018, 04:12:47 »
We had to remove that for our campaigns.  It ruined our play style.  People didn't need to watch the flag and people couldn't hide in the flag zone.  That's very important for us.

Online Leopardi

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #6 on: 06-12-2018, 12:12:08 »
Best thing since sliced bread for gameplay on public. It's not really intended that a single kubel can sneak and spawn an entire army on the next flag and insta-cap it.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #7 on: 06-12-2018, 21:12:02 »
We had to remove that for our campaigns.  It ruined our play style.  People didn't need to watch the flag and people couldn't hide in the flag zone.  That's very important for us.
but isn't that obvious? and how is that related? you run your campaign on a minimod anyway  ???

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #8 on: 07-12-2018, 00:12:32 »
This discussion will go the same way as the one about the K98 aiming.

Players, for 5 years: There is a problem with the K98 aiming.
Devs: "there is no problem, stop complaining."

Devs after 5 years: there might be a slight problem with the elevation of the grain... but nothing that would explain the players' complaints about the K98's accuracy. Stop exaggerating already.

Devs after 6 years: hey it was not really necessary, but we changed the grain...a bit.
K98 aim: *works again.*
Players: "..."

It IS a problem if the defender can instantly see via flashing flag that one of his flags is under attack. Way before it turns white and denies him the possibility to instantly join on that flag and prop it up with defending players. It gives him an unfair advantage.

On crossed flags? Yes, the flashing is sensible, to highlight spawn campers. In conquest modes with free for all flags? Don't use it. "But Odium, you are exaggerating, there is no..."

;)
See you in 5 years.
« Last Edit: 07-12-2018, 00:12:33 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #9 on: 07-12-2018, 00:12:33 »
Well, I have no idea what K98 issue are you talking about, but blinking flags were introduced on purpose to give that "unfair" advantage to defenders, that is exactly what they do, get over it. It's not like changes like there were not tested and discussed internally before they went public. Also, it is liked by most of the players according to feedback, only very few complained about it really, but you can't win them all.

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #10 on: 07-12-2018, 00:12:33 »
Thank you Jan for proving my point. ;) <3
It is one thing to test a gameplay change with 5vs5 beta testers.
How it works out on a full 50vs50 server, Jan, can be another matter.

You can ignore that and call everyone around yourself a noob and incompetent.
Or ask yourself if there is something to improve here.
« Last Edit: 07-12-2018, 00:12:17 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline Stubbfan

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #11 on: 07-12-2018, 01:12:24 »
Constructive Feedback is always welcome. The rest of the jibbajabba won't help anyone though.

Offline blander

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #12 on: 07-12-2018, 01:12:57 »
In my oppinion it is true that the blinking helps in push mode maps, even sector push. It makes sense there because the map is designed for the push to work, obviously. But in conquest maps it just kills the essence of the game mode.

Online Matthew_Baker

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #13 on: 07-12-2018, 02:12:32 »
I'll copy pasta from when this was discussed in another thread;

It's a way of neutralizing precappers on push maps and back cappers on conquest maps. I personally love this change, and I know that many of the devs and testers do as well.

To me- I don't like "sneaky" people back capping flags or pre-capping flags since it seems like a cheap way of taking a point. Imo it's more fun to fight over a flag instead of sneaking behind everyone and taking it without contest. It's definitely a more arcade-ish change, but it fits within the gameplay of FH2 imo (a balance of arcade and realism)

The idea is to give your typical pub player a better idea of what's going on, and give the whole team the same situational awareness. As an example; I was moving up with my squad as Russians on Ihantala from the Bridge to the Highway flag. We saw the bridge flag blinking and the team made a collective effort to stop running forward and fall back to defend. It made us attack and defend as a team rather than being caught in no-man's land.

Imo it's not intrusive (only on the minimap) and serves its purpose (curtailing the effectiveness of back cappers/ pre cappers and promoting teamwork)

I'll also add that I don’t understand the appeal of capping a flag with no resistance. I want to fight over the flag and win it, not just crouch next to my teammates until a timer is up, hop in the car and peace out. It also makes you think twice about attacking (if you’re smart) to wait for teammates and not just jump into a flag by yourself hoping to surprise the enemy. It just never appealed to me to hop in a Jeep and bum rush a flag that no ones defending. I never felt satisfaction from capping it. Especially because 9/10 my SL would have us all hop back into the Jeep and find another flag that no ones defending. It seems like a driving simulator when it plays out that way.

Quote
It IS a problem if the defender can instantly see via flashing flag that one of his flags is under attack. Way before it turns white and denies him the possibility to instantly join on that flag and prop it up with defending players. It gives him an unfair advantage.

I don't see the advantage that an attacker has here. He can spawn into the flag and contest it, but he risks;
a) being the only one that spawns there
b) getting spawn killed

If anything, it evens the playing field because now both the attacker and defender have the same information about the status of the flag and can act accordingly.

In the same way that I can see the enemy's tickets and if they're bleeding or not; both teams get the same information and can act accordingly.

...But in conquest maps it just kills the essence of the game mode.

I'd argue that the essence of conquest is for flags to be fought over and not for people to take flags without anyone else noticing. Conquest stems from 'vanilla' Battlefield, where the devs have consistently tried to make it clear to players that a flag is falling before it goes neutral. BF2 had giant flag poles sticking up to show you the progress on the flag and BFV has the same thing, accompanied with an indicator on the minimap.

The intention of the change was to encourage players to fight over flags, and not take them without contest. This change succeeds in doing that, and it's a change that makes the game more fun (imo).

Offline Wilhelm

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Re: Blinking flag
« Reply #14 on: 07-12-2018, 03:12:37 »
This is one of my favorite features that has been added to FH2.  In all BF games I am the kind of player that spawns at empty flags left by teammates who constantly zerg from one flag to another only to have the flag they were just at get recaptured.  Having this kind of warning helps make players more likely to help keep control of territory already won!

When this was first implemented during beta tests, I thought it was only going to work for push maps, but was really excited to see it apply to conquest as well. 

How I see it, it is just an indicator that an area is 'active,' just because the defending team can see their flag is under attack doesn't mean they will win the fight for it.  If you fail to take a flag simply because the enemy knows you are there, then....sorry?  ???