Transports showing in mini-map

[Slayer]

I kindly disagree with you on the teamwork thing

Just yesterday we played Villers Bocage and ToreSlinning was destroying axis Panzers left and right in his Achilles. When I typed a little compliment, he replied "couldn't have done it without my squad". I wasn't in his squad, but I saw red tanks flash on the minimap from time to time, so I assume he had spotters in his squad who told him where the Panthers, Tigers and Panzer IVs were. Since he lived for so long, he must have had repairmen to keep him alive for so long too. That is just one example, from a casual night of gaming.

Of course, in other squads the teamwork might not be as smooth, let alone the guys who aren't even in squads, but I think the amount of teamwork is OK, and often underestimated.

@HUD elements: what do you mean by "all other elements gone"? I still see my ammocount and the "health" of my vehicle/static weapon, so I don't know for sure what you mean by "all gone".

[Redbadd]

Im ok with them showing up, you can use it as a diversion or an invitation to come on over. You can drive it into a river etc or stay in the backseat.

Sneaking is what makes most maps playable.

Imagin Villers be a push sector what ever you call it map, it would be a horrible bore grind fest like most of the new maps. Backcapping is shit but it would make ogledow more fun, get things moving instead of running into a brick (lead) wall.
Ary spamming, heavy tank spamming, maybe planes with higher accuracy then comtempory airforces and instant reload. I dont care to try to cap a flag with a couple 122 spots on it.
Blind spotting and a couple of guys repairing on the back of a tank and a guy sniping with a 105mm, thats just as gamy as rushing in with a kuebel a couple of times until it works.

[Slayer]

Sneaking is what makes most maps playable.

Wow, that is certainly a pessimistic view on the gameplay of the mod.

Agreed that there are many gamey things in FH2, but that doesn't mean that all gamey things are good/should be allowed in or added to the mod.

[GeoPat]

They've been experimenting with making empty vehicle icons invisible in the tournament.  It is possible to do without teamlocking everything.

Incidentally, sneaking in with vehicles is the essence of tournament play.  Given the popularity of the tournament, I'd say many people prefer that gameplay style.

[Slayer]

Incidentally, sneaking in with vehicles is the essence of tournament play.  Given the popularity of the tournament, I'd say many people prefer that gameplay style.

You know this "conclusion" is borked, right?

Also, the essence of tournament play was teamwork, right? At least, that's what I've been hearing all these years.

If you want sneaky gameplay, there are games designed for that, like those James Bond games.

[GeoPat]

If you want sneaky gameplay, there are games designed for that, like those James Bond games.

We don't need other games.  This one is perfect for sneaking around on big conquest maps.  It makes use of the best that the BF2 engine offers.  It allows high ping, average skilled players the opportunity to outsmart their foe.

IMO, many of the stock maps actually keep the action where the engine is buggiest, lot's of people at close quarters.  It turns a great game into lag and frag, spawn die spawn die.  In general it favors low pingers with good shooter skills.  It's basically a field day for young Germans, atm.

As for the tournament, it takes a lot of team work to pull off a good sneak attack.  There is nothing quite like attacking a flag simultaneously from different directions and wiping out the defenders.  There is also nothing quite as great as using a sneak attack on a back flag to flip the tables on an enemy team that thought it was winning.  That's how we can play the same map for 6-7 rounds and each round feels completely different.

As for other games, I'm pretty sure almost every WW2 FPS game out there does what some of the stock maps are trying to do which is script the gameplay.

[Flippy Warbear]

Is EOD2 really popular in the tournament scene, GeoPat?

[Nerdsturm]

IMO, many of the stock maps actually keep the action where the engine is buggiest, lot's of people at close quarters.  It turns a great game into lag and frag, spawn die spawn die.  In general it favors low pingers with good shooter skills.  It's basically a field day for young Germans, atm.

Frankly, this is what most people want from the game. Players want action, and don't care enough about winning the map to wait around defending flags that rarely, if ever, get attacked. IMO this is why most of the CMP maps play poorly on the public servers - I mean you can sneak attack the rear flags on Westwall but even on a 100 player server the probability that there will be any defenders there is low.

But I think transports should stay visible just because they're usable transports and players may need them. Teamlocking transports would be okay though, as it's easy to teamkill players in enemy jeeps since they're so fast that you have little time to check the minimap.

[GeoPat]

That is a good point Nerdstrum.  Luckily the tournament is still strong going for those who like its gameplay.  I'm working on a stripped down version of Westwall for the next CMP release.  Fewer flags more tanks.

@Flippy.  Unfortunately EOD2 is dead.  I don't think most people have even heard of it.  Maybe we will get an event or mini-campaign going, like we have with BF Pirates2.  I would like to try it out with multiplayer.

[Flippy Warbear]

@Flippy.  Unfortunately EOD2 is dead.  I don't think most people have even heard of it.  Maybe we will get an event or mini-campaign going, like we have with BF Pirates2.  I would like to try it out with multiplayer.

You'd think EOD2 was doing great in the tournament world if sneaking is the way to play in them.

[GeoPat]

Oh, I see where this is going.  We should just revive some thread of an argument that will never end.  For the record there is no "tournament world" that I know of.  The people that I have played with the past 6 years in two different tournaments just want to play their preferred version of FH2.  All other games tried have gotten a lot less participation.  Only FH1 and FHSW campaigns even come close. 

It's never really been about the tournament, most participants are completely inactive in the forums and don't attend training.  It's not ever about teamwork and roleplaying.  You have to yell at people to communicate.  Every Friday a bunch of people want to play a game that they love in style they prefer.  Just like some FH2 fans only play SP other FH2 fans prefer the tournament maps.  That's just how it is.

If you were serious about EOD2, I don't think it ever got finished enough to take off. 

[Slayer]

We don't need other games.  This one is perfect for sneaking around on big conquest maps.  It makes use of the best that the BF2 engine offers. It allows high ping, average skilled players the opportunity to outsmart their foe.

Actually, what you describe, is that FH2 should have never been made on the BF2 engine. And yes, the whole sneaking thing suits BF2 A LOT better than FH2, since World War 2 big battles were usually more about clashes of armies than about small parties sneaking in somewhere. Maybe FH2 would have been better on a different engine. But it is as it is.

[Korsakov829]

It's a problem but I don't think that there's a middle ground solution to it, even in the latest Battlefield games empty vehicles still appear on the map.

In BF1942, BF2, all the time I remember checking the map to see what vehicles were open for taking in the enemy's spawn and whatever was missing would tell you what the enemy was fielding and what you had to prepare to counter or evade. Any time a flag is captured and vehicles spawn you check to see if anything disappears to get an idea of how fast they're moving. It's not a big deal when you have a server of 50+ people since it's much harder to keep track of but even then you can at least pay attention to what is only a few meters away from you, so you'd have a few seconds of warning if you had an attack coming from a vehicle. And that's why I always drowned my jeeps in a lake or something if possible, or went the longest way possible on foot. In the tournaments, it didn't happen that often but it was a tactic to have one person remain inside the vehicle for several seconds after everyone gets out, or to drive it elsewhere.

In my opinion the map shouldn't even be visible and only accessible after a considerable delay and even then should never relay the position of any person or vehicle, not even yourself. That's the extreme option, I like it because it makes everyone a bit more cautious about their surroundings and needs an even more heightened awareness as to what is going on, be it sounds or flocks of birds. Of the latter I don't remember if that's still in FH2 but honestly it should be removed, but that's a topic for another time.

The alternative to that is adjust the range that empty vehicles begin to appear on the map to something really short. I have no idea how that is achieved and if it's possible to do without changing the range for every single thing.