Author Topic: Berlin  (Read 21558 times)

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #135 on: 16-07-2018, 11:07:55 »
Some updates:


























Offline Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #136 on: 16-07-2018, 14:07:55 »
Looking good,I'm getting the imprtession that this map is HUGE. Can't wait to test it out :)

Offline nysä

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #137 on: 16-07-2018, 15:07:14 »
Sweet! How's the progress with the Pantherturm?

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #138 on: 16-07-2018, 16:07:15 »
tracks is with a road tool yea. you just need to find the right mesh

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #139 on: 16-07-2018, 18:07:52 »
Texture load on this map is going to be ridiculous.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #140 on: 16-07-2018, 20:07:09 »
It became much bigger than I expected, I hope that contributes for a new gameplay feel.

I have not worked on the Pantherturm yet. I started to realise how big the map is when I started to add detail. It takes a lot longer than I thought.

I´ll try to figure out the road tool and if I fail I will ask for help, thanks!

The map doesn´t take too much to load right now. Will that change when I paint all the OOBs? Or do the lightmaps make the loading longer?

To be realistic I guess I will be finishing this map by Christmass.
« Last Edit: 16-07-2018, 21:07:17 by blander »

Offline Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #141 on: 16-07-2018, 22:07:00 »
If you really think it's too big, then don't be afraid to cut parts out. You don't have to delete those, just don't include them in the gameplay area. This will give you the opportunity to lower the texture load, add more closed instead of open buildings in those areas and thus improve the performance.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #142 on: 17-07-2018, 02:07:08 »
When I was working on one of the last flags, specially on the underground bunker which was going to be a spawn point, the editor crashed and I lost all the work of the day. I´m still pissed about it so I might go ahead and just remove all that sector, including the flag.

So yeah, I will probably go with your suggestion Slayer. You just saved me like an extra month of work hehe.

But still, it is a big map. I didn´t want it to be a new Battle of Brest. There are plenty tanks and lots of space for tactics and flanking, not a straight forward meat grinder like Ramelle.
« Last Edit: 17-07-2018, 02:07:54 by blander »

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #143 on: 17-07-2018, 03:07:01 »
You definitely want to make sure you optimize your map as best you can. Some things to look out for off the top of my head;

Texture Load: make sure not to load too many or necessary textures. For example, if you have a 'Normandy' camouflaged panther, don't also use the 'Autumn' camouflaged panther. This makes the game load 2 textures for the same tank and eats memory. Same goes for other things like Pak40s, 88s cars, trucks halftracks w/e.

Open Buildings: make sure not to use too many of them. They eat a lot of memory and require more power to render since they have more polygons and textures to load. Stick to placing open buildings in important places like flag zones or if you need a player to move through them to get to a certain area etc... leave the rest of the areas as closed buildings.

Not to mention that you need to fill them with furniture etc... to make them look good, which adds to the static count.

Unique Objects & Static Objects: Afaik it's good practice to keep you object count low. In the Level Editor, if you look on the bottom bar, there should be a "Level Info" button that will show you specific things about your map. Unique objects are something to keep an eye on since each object typically loads a new texture sheet which loads more memory etc... also the total static object count. I think some of the higher counts I've seen are ~6000 static objects in total. Just good to keep an eye on.

View Distance: Obviously with a city map, you shouldn't need a gigantic view distance. I think a lower view distance will help keep people's frame up because the map doesn't need to render the objects it doesn't see etc...

Just things to keep in mind :) more experienced mappers could have other tips.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #144 on: 17-07-2018, 05:07:51 »
Interesting tips!

Right now there are 5605 static objects. I plan on adding more little objects, so in return i will make the playable area smaller and thus delete many buildings.

About the Panther example, I plan on having 2 different Panther textures, one of them being new (if I have enough time to make it). Same goes for other vehicles. I also want to clone some buildings to have 2 different textures for the same building on the same map. Keep in mind this map is (I think) the biggest city map made for FH2 and it´s hard to make sectors look different since there is a limited number of buildings to choose from.

Same goes for open buildings. Some times I did not intend to place open buildings but some are unique (they don´t come in closed version) so that forces me to close them with wood planks and stuff like that.

There are long streets and lots of tanks and AT guns on the map. I tryied to keep the view distance at a point were PC performance is not crushed and tanks keep a high value.

All kinds of tips and suggestions are welcome, lets all make this a great new map!

Offline nysä

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #145 on: 17-07-2018, 20:07:44 »
About the Panther example, I plan on having 2 different Panther textures, one of them being new (if I have enough time to make it). Same goes for other vehicles.

Curious, what type of texture you are planning to make?
This map could really use a late (standardized) factory camouflages on some of the vehicles, like a generic MAN factory cam on the Panther Ausf G or Alkett factory camo on the StuG III Ausf G (if there is one).
Dot and disc camos were mostly experimental, used only for a brief production period only.

Offline Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #146 on: 17-07-2018, 21:07:54 »
Same goes for open buildings. Some times I did not intend to place open buildings but some are unique (they don´t come in closed version) so that forces me to close them with wood planks and stuff like that.
Try to avoid this as much as possible, because even if you close it off, the textures of the interior will be loaded anyway.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #147 on: 17-07-2018, 21:07:32 »
Pz.Kpfw. V Panther Ausf. G, coded “333”, of 5th Panzer Battalion, 25th Panzer Grenadier Division; area east of Berlin, April 1945. [Painted by Arkadiusz Wróbel]



I plan on having a KT, 2 Panthers and 1 Jagdpanzer IV L/70 on the map. If you have any interesting pictures with cammo patterns suited for Berlin please let me know. I also want to change the markings on soviet tanks, that´s much easier to do.

Same goes for open buildings. Some times I did not intend to place open buildings but some are unique (they don´t come in closed version) so that forces me to close them with wood planks and stuff like that.
Try to avoid this as much as possible, because even if you close it off, the textures of the interior will be loaded anyway.

Yesterday I removed lots of buildings to reduce the gameplay area. If that´s not enough then I will remove more open buildings. Is there a way to know if the CPU usage is correct for the map?

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #148 on: 17-07-2018, 22:07:21 »
Just some advice from my experience of being a tester and hearing mappers talk about the problems they've faced.

I plan on having 2 different Panther textures, one of them being new (if I have enough time to make it). Same goes for other vehicles.

I would just keep it to one for now. You can use a placeholder (like the Normandy one or w/e) and reskin that one with the new texture after the map is complete. IF you have the space after the map is finished you can add a 2nd panther texture. Changing the types of vehicles is always relatively easy to do even after the map is complete.

It's really cool for tanks to have slightly different camos and vehicle numbers like irl. But tbh, people don't really notice that stuff in the heat of battle. Overall the memory that is saves is more beneficial than the 'aesthetic' factor.

Quote
I also want to clone some buildings to have 2 different textures for the same building on the same map. Keep in mind this map is (I think) the biggest city map made for FH2 and it´s hard to make sectors look different since there is a limited number of buildings to choose from.

Same advice as above. It's best right now to keep the building's textures the same so you don't load too many at once. IF you have memory left over after the map is finished and the areas still look too repetitive, then I'd look into re-skinning it.

Lots of games re-use assets throughout a map to save memory. The trick is spreading out the similar buildings so the player doesn't encounter them in the same view. The important places are flag areas where players will generally spend most of their time. That's where you can utilize the unique statics so no two flag zones look the same.

If you have two areas with the same set of buildings in them. I would try a different approach of making the details different first; i.e. re-ordering the buildings so they're not in the same order. Making the street scene different (different debris in the road, lay out the cover differently etc...) so the player can't automatically tell that the same buildings are used.

It's definitely one of the tougher parts of urban mapping, but if you show some problem areas. We could certainly take a look and make some suggestions. :)

Quote
Same goes for open buildings. Some times I did not intend to place open buildings but some are unique (they don´t come in closed version) so that forces me to close them with wood planks and stuff like that.

Like Slayer said, I would look for other statics to fill that area. If you simply close off an open building, the textures inside that building will still be loaded and the lightmaps will still be generated for an area that a player can't access. If you want to go really hardcore, you could make a closed version of that static after the map is done. But that seems unnecessary, since most times you can just find other statics to take it's place.

Panther texture is nice. 8) In my experience I would just worry about vehicle textures last. If the map is well optimized and has good gameplay, someone maybe able to save you the trouble of re-skinning a tank from scratch. Overall, you want to have a strong map that plays well and runs well on everyone's computer so it can be played for many years to come. :D

EDIT:
Also, pretty sure Toddel made the Panther texture in a clever way so that it can have two different sets of turret numbers on the same map. Best to save that till the end.
« Last Edit: 17-07-2018, 22:07:57 by Matthew_Baker »

Offline nysä

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #149 on: 18-07-2018, 07:07:40 »
I plan on having a KT, 2 Panthers and 1 Jagdpanzer IV L/70 on the map. If you have any interesting pictures with cammo patterns suited for Berlin please let me know.

Panthers fighting in the Berlin area were mainly with MAN factory camo, but naturally other variants existed as well (few Ausf Ds were also there):



For more accurate tones: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/f8/ea/b6f8ea46cae2be5e95a0ebc726d0ff66.jpg


Panzer IV/70 photographed in Berlin had fairly soft edged camo, similar to this (w. dominant olive green):


Overall, I would suggest dominant dark brown and olive green with some "dark yellow" stripes.
« Last Edit: 18-07-2018, 08:07:42 by nysä »