Author Topic: Berlin  (Read 4060 times)

Offline GeoPat

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #45 on: 12-03-2018, 16:03:48 »
Go to the website https://cmp-gaming.com/ and join their Discord or just post on the website.  I'll talk to them about adding you to the Dev team.

Offline GeoPat

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #46 on: 12-03-2018, 17:03:41 »
re-login at CMP and you should have access to the Development section now

Offline Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #47 on: 12-03-2018, 20:03:26 »
If you really want a good test, have something playable in time for the opening of the next CMP campaign.  We can get you 40-80 players, depending on whether we put it in the scrims or just an opening day event.
That would be great for balance related stuff. If you need testing to see if the map works OK when it comes to memory usage, static placement, etc. then just upload it here so we can download it and try it out. For balance you would need a lot of players, for the other stuff not. There would smaller numbers be better actually, because the other players would simply distract too much from the testing.

For third sector I'd advise to do something simple, as the attacking team has to work through two sectors before they get there. So a bridge crossing would indeed be a bit much. Maybe a huge building in which they have to capture both the basement and the upper floors would work, or two different buildings opposite each other on a square or something.
« Last Edit: 12-03-2018, 20:03:15 by Slayer »

Offline RayderPSG

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #48 on: 12-03-2018, 22:03:33 »
Where can I get more info about the CMP campaign? I need to speak to someone in charge of getting the maps set for the server and for distribution among the players. I suppose it´s done via Community Updater, right? How can I get to talk with those guys?

Blander, en la página cmp-gaming.com! Ya estás registrado de hecho jaja. Ahí hay mappers y demás, habla con ellos.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #49 on: 12-03-2018, 22:03:26 »
Double post
« Last Edit: 12-03-2018, 22:03:30 by blander »

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #50 on: 12-03-2018, 22:03:54 »
Thank you! I will look into that. Gracias Rayder!

I have 2 sectors left to make, I thought that one could have a wide street or boulevard (Unter Den Linden stylish???) to have a less claustrophobic battlefield. It could include more open spaces like a square as you said, Slayer.

I wanted to save the huge building flag for last, but it could be done in the third sector. If that is the case, I have no idea of what to do (different) in the fourth sector. I have to take into consideration that all sectors have to be at least relatively tank-friendly. If I make a flag where tanks play no role then the logic says tank drivers would ditch them as soon as they get to the infantry-only area. The flag has to be made in a way that tanks can participate, even if they can´t get into the flagzone themselves. I did this in the first sector but it would be harder to do in a huge building. Maybe it could be layed out in a way that russian tanks still play a role cutting off german respawning players attempting to get into the flag building.

I would love to replicate a real place but it wouldn´t look good since I lack the specific statics.

All ideas are welcome to improve the map!
« Last Edit: 12-03-2018, 22:03:41 by blander »

Offline Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #51 on: 12-03-2018, 23:03:37 »
Oh right, you have four sectors. Sorry, I still thought from the three sectors perspective ;)

You could bind the tankspawns to the second sector so that as soon as it's lost, they won't respawn: problem solved.


Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #52 on: 13-03-2018, 00:03:26 »
It is indeed a good idea, but it is the opposite to what I planned. I expected to have a tank-to-tank battle around the last 2 sectors. I expected it to work the opposite way, the more the map progresses, the more vehicles become available.

This is what I have in mind so far for soviet tank/arty loadout:

* 1  IS-2
* 2  T-34/85
* 1  SU-152
* 1 Katyusha (after capping 1st sector)
* 1 T-34/76 (after capping 2nd sector)
* Maybe more arty for balance

German loadout:

* 1 Panther G (after losing 1st sector)
* 1 Tiger II (after losing 2nd sector)
* 1 Nebelwerfer at 2nd sector
* Multiple PaK40 and 88mm Flak
* Static Tiger I and Pantherthurm
* Maybe a Stuka zu Fuß if necessary for balance

There will be no wrench kit. Once static guns are destroyed there is no coming back to life. Tanks and other vehicles will have a long respawn time. The idea is to have players play smart and not waste the equipment. That´s an important flaw I find in some maps. I will also remove SL spawns. Distances are not long so there will not be too much boring running times, it´s all about playing smart and as a team, that is what I want to encourage.
« Last Edit: 13-03-2018, 00:03:23 by blander »

Offline FHMax3

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #53 on: 13-03-2018, 10:03:31 »
I don't think a T-34 76 is needed.
That other thread failed miserably and if you try to spam or flame here, I will break your arms.
FH2 won't be the last FH. ;)

Offline Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #54 on: 13-03-2018, 16:03:11 »
It is indeed a good idea, but it is the opposite to what I planned.
OK, it's your map ofc, so go ahead :) It's just a bit more ligical that if you fight yourself into a trwon's center, that it becomes more and more an infantry fight and that tanks should play less and less of a role. Think of it as outskirts - suburb - quarter - town center. Most vehicle traffic in peacetime would be in outskirts, and like in peacetime, vehicles have more trouble driving around in town center. So, that's my chain of thoughts, but it's all a matter of opinion of course.

There will be no wrench kit. Once static guns are destroyed there is no coming back to life. Tanks and other vehicles will have a long respawn time. The idea is to have players play smart and not waste the equipment. That´s an important flaw I find in some maps. I will also remove SL spawns. Distances are not long so there will not be too much boring running times, it´s all about playing smart and as a team, that is what I want to encourage.
I understand, but most players will not play smart, just take a look at an average public round. Not having a wrench might look like a nice plan, but it will cause frustration: players expect that they can repair static guns, vehicles and what not. Maybe try to encourage smart gameplay in different ways, so that you don't force them.

Same goes for SL spawn btw. I think you should try and finish the map first with all the "normal" gameplay properties of FH2, because that way it can be easily seen if things work out or not. After that you could try and experiment on things, like no SL spawn. If you do it rightaway, there is little to compare it to, and then the testing will be a little obsolete and just based on gut feelings.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #55 on: 13-03-2018, 18:03:51 »
^ this.

You need to remember that when creating a map, especially your first map, you should accomodate to the mod and existing gameplay mechanics that come with it, not the other way around. That means your map supposed to work within the mod without any changes, especially to basic mechanics like SL spawn etc. Otherwise we are not talking about mapping here anymore, but about creating a minimod, so keep it simple.

Also note, that changing gameplay mechanics to YOUR LIKINGS, but only map side is probably not the best idea because, gameplay for the most part is, and should always be global (affect mod as a whole), and due to that fact, be well known and easily understandable by ALL players in game. Any deviation from that will be unclear, confusing or frustrating at least to some people and you don't want that. Not to mention that it is a simple matter of taste. You like when people play smart, others like to just run n' gun. A good map should satisfy them all.
« Last Edit: 13-03-2018, 18:03:42 by jan_kurator »

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #56 on: 15-03-2018, 00:03:25 »
The outskirts - suburb - quarter - town center is a nice setup for the map but since I started out with lots of tall appartments it´s already too late to go for that, unfortunately I didn´t think of that when I started the map.

I can leave the SL spawn but I am definately limiting the wrenches, maybe even just to a few pickups. Think of Ramelle. A guy sitting on the Tiger spamming F2 F3 F4 to dodge bullets like in Matrix while repairing a tank on the move in the middle of a fight in a clogged up street? I don´t want that for my map. It´s not about my likings, it´s about avoiding exploits.

About the T34 76, I saw a picture with one in Berlin. It´s just an idea, nothing final.

Offline GeoPat

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #57 on: 15-03-2018, 05:03:29 »
I wouldn't worry too much about the gameplay and loadout stuff too much right now.  Just get your map looking good.  That stuff is pretty easy to change when the time comes.
I don't know if you have figured it out yet, but there is no way the FH2 Devs are going to take and release your map in the official mod, so you should consider what will become of it.  Your only real hope is to get it released by the custom community.  It may end up in a tournament.  It might end up getting nav-meshed for single player.  And it might end up released as a pubby map in the CMP map pack.  In each case, you would have different set up and gameplay concerns.  BTW, the current Pacific maps with ships in the CMP don't have spawn-in wrench kits.  This is to avoid ship repair exploit.  Players complain in all-chat but they are certainly used to not being able to repair everything.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #58 on: 15-03-2018, 05:03:10 »
Yes, my goal is to have the map in the CMP pool. I´m using CMP statics to have more variation. Some are sorta buggy, I´m doing my best to keep them and making bugs the least noticeable.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #59 on: 15-03-2018, 06:03:19 »
I found out map CTD when I spot for arty with binoculars. What could this be?