Author Topic: Berlin  (Read 5452 times)

Offline blander

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Berlin
« on: 25-02-2018, 06:02:01 »
Hello!

I started to learn how to map about 2 weeks ago, now I kicked off with a Berlin map. It´s in its very early stages.

It will have push mode, with 4 sectors to attack/defend, probably 2 flags each. I intend to create a Pantherturm with the existing Panther turret model and replace the french building sign textures with german ones.

I´m thinking about this vehicle loadout:

1 IS-2
2 T34-85
1 SU-152
1 Katyusha (after capping first sector)

1 King Tiger (after losing first sector)
1 Panther (after losing first sector)

Any suggestions are more than welcome, beta-testers also!








Online Seth_Soldier

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #1 on: 25-02-2018, 11:02:18 »
Remember not to do too much art (placing small things, creating complex defensive position ike trenches etc ...) but rather focus on a first gameplay version with raw building placement and provide a global idea how you want it to be played
(very difficult because players often can ruin you gameplay if you didn't think about every exploit possible)

Also remember what kind of ww2 experience you want your player to feel. You must unconsciously force them to experiment it and avoid them to break it with unrealistic/stupid behaviour.

If you can't reproduce a real location, it's fine. What is important is the ww2 feeling and the right content used.

From your first screenshot, i guess you want to go for the streets fights.
Some of my feelings about street fights are :
Quote
large deadly street dominated by german tank :
 - deadly for the infantery
 - long distance tank battle
- easiest way to advance if soviet succeed to destroy german tanks

These large deadly road could force the player to use parallel small deadly street (only one tank large), or it could be the next sector after the large street (this way, your gameplay can radically change each sector):
- deadly for tank without infantery
- panzerfaust fest (<- you must be carefull where you place open building and clise building - think about ramelle)
- infantery fight will be the most important.
- narrow street increase the action
- if the street aren't narrow to one tank, then place obstacle so only a tank can maneuver 1 at a time.

The beginning of the map should be relatively easy for the soviet. But the last sector should be a meat grinder.
Soviet get artillery.
German can have a nice mix of poor infantery class (carcano, obsolete stuff) and excellent class (stg44).
The map could be someting like 1st sector = berlin outskirt or openfield garden, 2nd sector = large street, 3rd sector = narrow street

Good luck !
As i often say, it takes 20% of the total time to create 80% of a map.
But you need 80% the total time to finish it !
« Last Edit: 25-02-2018, 12:02:35 by Seth_Soldier »

Online Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #2 on: 25-02-2018, 14:02:00 »
Ambitious project :)

First thought: 4 sectors with 2 flags each: too much (unneeded complexity, esp for a first map). Focus on less sectors, for instance 3 with 2 flags each.

Second thought: what Seth said. Place yourself in the biggest troll out there and try to abuse every aspect of your map, then think about solutions to prevent it.

Last thought: like I said, ambitious project, but it'd be nice if it will be finished. I wish you a lot of stamina!

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #3 on: 25-02-2018, 23:02:52 »
I read the recommendations about mapmaking. The thing is, some times I just mix up the steps, not to get too bored or saturated of one task. Some times I place roads, other times I place buildings, fix exploits, add art, place buildings, modify textures and height, etc.

I don´t want to reproduce a real location. Instead, some parts of the map (like the first screenshot) will have similarities with real photos, all over the map. So it will look like Berlin to some degree.

The general infantry/tank balance idea would be that the only way the russians could effectively advance through the streets is with tank support on the front, which I want it to be a constant factor. What will change, from sector to sector, is what the germans have to deal with the soviet tanks. In some parts only faust/explosives/schreck, other sectors AT guns and tanks. View distance is set to high for long range combat.

I thought about the idea of obsolete weapons. Maybe the main kits (K98, StG44) could be limited, so a few people would be forced to use volksturm weapons.

It´s too late to make an outskirt sector. Kickoff for the russians is the first screenshot. It has 3 streets, connected in some points. The germans have a fixed 88 and a movable Pak40. Quite little to deal with 4 heavy tanks, but that´s the whole idea.

I have the whole map layout on paper, the next sector would be an open square, used as an AA site for the germans (based on real photo).

The 3rd sector should have a main very wide street and a Pantherturm at the end of it (based on real photo). I´m also thinking about modding a static Tiger I simulating it has no fuel, only turret usable. This sector should feature a long range tank/arty engagement.

The last sector should have very narrow streets, a total meat grinder.

It is an ambitious Project indeed. The initial idea of 4 sectors might be too much as you say, I´ll see how it goes as I create it, I hope I can include all 4. I do check every possible abuse regularly.

Thanks for your comments and keep it coming, everything helps!

Online Slayer

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #4 on: 26-02-2018, 00:02:05 »
High viewdistance is for flying. I assume you don't have planes on this map planned (and otherwise I advise you now to not put them on), so I'd lower the viewdistance.

Not only is medium enough for urban tank combat, but it will also prevent your map from lagging like hell. All visible objects will need to be generated, so with medium you will have less of those, improving the performance of your map. Closed buildings also improve the performance, so don't put too many open buildings in (a frequently made mistake by - starting - mappers).

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #5 on: 26-02-2018, 01:02:42 »
There will be no planes here. The viewdistance is on the limit where you can see from one end to the other of the longest street. I know it increases lag, but otherwise tank combat would be too limited. As a general rule I used closed buildings as default. Then I replaced them with open ones only where I need them, to provide cover for the advancing/defending troops. I placed a zig-zag pattern of closed and open buildings on both sides of the street around the hot areas.

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #6 on: 02-03-2018, 05:03:25 »
I have a question: what do I have to do to replace an existing texture with one I made myself? For example, some buildings I used have french ads, I want to replace the original texture files and put german ads instead. Where should I place the files? How do I route the static to the new texture file?

Maybe I have to make a new static and add it to the map folder, all the same but just with a different texture?
« Last Edit: 02-03-2018, 05:03:26 by blander »

Offline Roughbeak

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #7 on: 02-03-2018, 17:03:47 »
Hi, this is called texture suffixing.

For an example in "Objects\StaticObjects\France\textures\" there is a texture called "france_propaganda_c.dds." As you can see there are some additional textures with suffixing including "_brest" and "_phl."
Perhaps, a mapper can explain this better than I can, but in order for the suffixes to work, a map's "Init.con" file needs to contain the characters such as "_brest" or "_phl" in the appropriate code spot.

For an example what I mean in the Init.con file:
Code: [Select]
if v_arg1 == BF2Editor
LevelSettings.CustomTextureSuffix "brest"
else
texturemanager.customTextureSuffix "brest"
endIf

In your case, you could make it as "berlin" (along with your new "_berlin" texture suffix). Hope this helps! :)

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #8 on: 03-03-2018, 02:03:19 »
Thank you, I will look into it!

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #9 on: 03-03-2018, 05:03:05 »
 Berlin was a HUGE battle. Impossible to duplicate in a FH2 map.

 You should narrow your focus on a particular sector of the battle.


I hear Forgotten Hope: Secret Weapon has a Pretty nice Reichstag static that could be ported over to FH2.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/forgotten-hope-secret-weapon/images/fall-of-berlin


 ;)
« Last Edit: 03-03-2018, 15:03:48 by Jimi Hendrix »



Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #10 on: 03-03-2018, 06:03:59 »
Oh man that looks nice but I already have to figure out lots of stuff, I did not expect to replicate a real place, I would have to start the map from 0 using a 1:1 scale to include the Reichstag.

Offline nysä

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #11 on: 04-03-2018, 14:03:48 »
Agreed on the panzerfausts and non-static Pak 40(s). Not too sure about the fixed 88, it would be always easy to wipe out from a distance, this would also apply to the Tiger I since it also opposes no threat to heavier Soviet tanks, esp. when facing head-on (IS-2's frontal armour is impenetrable).
Few Panzer IV/70(V) were used to defend Berlin, that might be suitable due it's low profile and rare appearance of the vehicle. Even one "Stuka zu fuß" might work well, considering it as a balance factor and the fact they were there.


« Last Edit: 04-03-2018, 16:03:07 by nysä »

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #12 on: 05-03-2018, 06:03:36 »
The only tank (in the map) that cannot be touched from the front by an 88 is the IS-2, besides the map design allows for German infantry to reach the tank before it gets in range of the first 88. In addition, the IS-2 driver might decide not to go through the main street where the 88 is. That´s were the strategy and human factor kicks in.

There were of course different kinds of German tanks in Berlin. I do not want to place more than 2 though to generate the feel of being low in tank numbers compared to the russians. Which could those 2 tanks be... I don´t know yet. Maybe I could just go for the ones that are more rarely used in the whole FH2 map pool. The Stuka zu fuß is a possibility too, though I initially thought of giving the germans no artillery at all, to simulate the same feel as with the tanks.

The idea about the static Tiger I was to simulate the lack of fuel, the tank to be used could be a different one.

It is important to make a decision about what tanks will the germans have. Now I started to make the 2nd sector where german armor gets into battle. The design of the map should make it easier for the german infantry to defend if they only had lets say a Jagdpanzer IV and a StuG III as tank force. But if instead of that a Tiger II and a Panther were the tanks available then I should change some things in the map.

Thanks for all the help and feedback, looking forward to making an enjoyable map!
« Last Edit: 05-03-2018, 06:03:08 by blander »

Offline nysä

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #13 on: 05-03-2018, 10:03:52 »
The idea about the static Tiger I was to simulate the lack of fuel, the tank to be used could be a different one.

Liking the idea. Maybe placing the Tiger behind some obstacle/another tank wreck would give it a bit more protection, similar to the one at Altonaer Straße:



Absolutely agree on using more unique AFVs on the map, incl. "ad hoc" solutions or those that were not necessarily the latest or most efficient types. Sd.Kfz.251/22 and Sd.Kfz.234/4 (vehicles that we don't have ATM) were both very common in Berlin and in urban fighting scenario they'd probably function better than a non-static Pak 40 in terms of agility, speed. Anyway, looking forward to updates on this map  8)
« Last Edit: 05-03-2018, 11:03:17 by nysä »

Offline blander

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Re: Berlin
« Reply #14 on: 05-03-2018, 16:03:19 »
I will take the idea of that picture. I saw those debris barricades on other pics and I replicated them already. I will soon post some pics, though the art is rough still, but that doesn´t matter much at this point of the map. Now I´m focusing on finishing the last touches of the balancing of the first sector.