Author Topic: Removing SL spawn  (Read 445 times)

Offline blander

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Removing SL spawn
« on: 27-01-2018, 07:01:34 »
I bet it has been spoken over a thousand times but yet again... Why do you allow such an arcadish feature in this type of mod? It really kills realism. What do you think?

Offline VonMudra

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 8.203
  • Traction Wars Developer- Research Dept
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #1 on: 27-01-2018, 16:01:11 »
No SL spawn means a breakdown of combat flow, especially as all the maps in FH2 are designed with the existence of SL spawn in mind.

Offline Sgt.Robharts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #2 on: 02-02-2018, 22:02:27 »
Imo it really kills the map design to have green dots...

Every "veteran" SL players tend to avoid actual ways designed by the  mapper... And it can be with really weird manners like in Marzth Line having a British SL flying the piper, land by the far right of the nebelwerfer  and spawn and army from his 2 seats plane.

An other example on Orsholtz Switch, having a fast moving Jeep maneuvering around trees on the far right edge of the map to by pass defences and then again, spawned an army from his little vehicle.

This SL thing is making the game less enjoyable as you almost don't play the map like it's designed but monitor hedgerows from behind you where you expect a veteran squad to push from...

I would be Keen on seeing an experiment with only mobile spawn points in the shape of half-tracks or trucks since they're visible and meant to transport actual squads.

Who's not really tired of having to find that one SL bitching in a bush waiting for the enemy forces to disappear to allow his fellow to spawn on him again to blitzkrieg the flag.

How is that not an issue that needs to be worked on?

Offline Slayer

  • Freeze Veteran
  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 3.942
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #3 on: 03-02-2018, 00:02:17 »
Because there have been experiments with removing SL spawn and doing a spawn APC. The experiment failed, so SL spawn is the least of all evils.

Removing it and play FH2 like you play FH1 would break all maps, as they were designed with SL spawn in mind.

So yeah, it may be an issue, but it is one which was already paid attention to in the past and the conclusion was that it was best to stick to it.

Offline Matthew_Baker

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.497
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #4 on: 03-02-2018, 05:02:58 »
Because there have been experiments with removing SL spawn and doing a spawn APC. The experiment failed, so SL spawn is the least of all evils.

Like Slayer said, there was a time a few years ago on Anctoville where we removed SL spawns and had it only in halftracks etc... it didn't go over well with the community. It broke the flow and basically made the halftracks the most important thing for the team. People stopped playing the flags and hunted/ defended the APCs.

Imo, the experiment could've gone on a bit longer, or we could've tried new things like a rally point system. But in the end, FH2 just was designed with a SLer spawn in mind.

The benefit of SL spawn is that it's easy and any new player can grasp the concept. It requires no action from the SL except to be alive. FH2s player base is more casual than other games without squad spawning. It has its disadvantages, but its ease of use is one of its major advantages.

Offline blander

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #5 on: 03-02-2018, 06:02:54 »
What I actually meant was no mobile spawn at all. No SL, no APC. Old FH1 style. More realism, more strategy needed than just sneak a guy close to a flag to get a constant stream of soldier coming out of him.

Offline jan_kurator

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.207
  • Magnificent Mustard
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #6 on: 03-02-2018, 06:02:30 »
When you consider amounts of players on the map at one time (up to 50 per team) on many maps it’s actually more realistic to have that constantly flowing stream of soldiers instead of few guys spawning on a flag kilometer behind the frontline.

Offline blander

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #7 on: 03-02-2018, 07:02:01 »
It is easy to sneak a SL behind enemy lines and pull an army out of it. It is easy to hide 1 man. It is not easy though to sneak a whole army behind enemy lines. Understand what I mean? If you want to be in a good position you have to work for it. Playing whatever and then spawning on a SL that made it close to a flag kills the preparation it would take to organize a group of soldiers and advance/work together as a real squad. That´s the experience i got from WaW tournament back in FH1. That´s were teamwork really made a difference. The SL spawn simply kills that feeling, FH1 was superior in that sense. What are we looking for? Spawning and having instant action? Or encourage realism, strategy and teamwork? I think this mod goes for the latter option. I stopped playing FH2 10 years ago. Now I´m back and I´m so disappointed the SL spawn still is around. Other than that the mod has been wonderful to play again.

Offline jan_kurator

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.207
  • Magnificent Mustard
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #8 on: 03-02-2018, 11:02:28 »
I stopped playing FH2 10 years ago. Now I´m back and I´m so disappointed the SL spawn still is around...
It was released 10 years and a month ago. Are you telling us that you played FH2 only for a month? You obviously didnt like it from the beginning, so why did you come back and complain about the core gameplay mechanic? SL was always here and I doubt it will be changed decade later because you don’t like it.
« Last Edit: 03-02-2018, 11:02:16 by jan_kurator »

Offline Seth_Soldier

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1.616
  • "Mort aux cons !"
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #9 on: 03-02-2018, 15:02:27 »
It is easy to sneak a SL behind enemy lines and pull an army out of it. It is easy to hide 1 man. It is not easy though to sneak a whole army behind enemy lines. Understand what I mean?

That's why i love desert map so much (Alam Halfa, Siege of Tobruk, El Alamein, ...)
Sneaking is difficult, most of the time there issome gameplay to reach a flag (panzer wolf pack and coordination to hope to reach it) and you have less protection (no house) to capture a flag so you really need to control the zone.

I'm not a big fan of the current SL situation because of the exploits, but it is still the best option to keep teamwork.
FH1 players were differents than FH2.
But even in FH1  at the end, when playing charlie sector - a map where you really needed teamplay to leave the beach, i realized that players were more and more individualist and were unable to understand that everybody must attack only one side of the beach to win.
In FH2, at least, experienced SL help to control the player flow.

Offline Sgt.Robharts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #10 on: 03-02-2018, 16:02:21 »
Jan, no need to disqualify what Blander thinks because he would have not played the game long enough on your opinion.

For my part, I played FH2 for a long time with 2 accounts since I had a real conflict with Odium and didn't want to be blacklisted.

But even if I hate SL spawn and really thinks it's not corresponding to the spirit of the game, I keep coming once and a while to play a few rounds because I live the ambiance and the work done on this mod. There is simply no WW2 shooter that complete and that realistic in terms of map design and material, and big point, one shot (mo of the time) one kill that's important too.

And if you want to know what I'm thinking really. I think Devs are not Superman's and have a life, and better things to do in term of developing the mod than to rethink the gameplay.

Same goes with admins on 762, spawnkilling has been allowed to allow admins to play more than enforcing almost constantly.

There are choices to be made, but are they to be written in stonds, I don't think so.
« Last Edit: 03-02-2018, 16:02:38 by Sgt.Robharts »

Offline jan_kurator

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.207
  • Magnificent Mustard
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #11 on: 03-02-2018, 17:02:22 »
Jan, no need to disqualify what Blander thinks because he would have not played the game long enough on your opinion.
I don't care how long any of you play to be honest, it's just funny to hear "I stopped playing the 10 years old mod, 10 years ago". That means you stopped right at the beginning, why would you come back to it after 10 years and say that you are dissapointed about some things in this mod still being the same? And why would anybody care about someone not being happy about how the mod didn't evolve in the way he wanted, if he admits not to even be a player of this mod? It's just nonsense.

Offline Sgt.Robharts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #12 on: 03-02-2018, 18:02:28 »
Well...

I don't know if 10 was just a way to say a lot or if it was effectively 10 years ago.

But anyways, he has played the mod a few times from what I seen in the killfeed and he actually has a point we can discuss on SL spawn points, and he's right, this is a thing that never changed.

He's not a hater because he'd have played the.mod like twice 10 years ago and then get back on it earlier this year.

He's not telling lies.

You can have your opinion by just playing one round.

To be honest, FH2 is the only ww2 shooter that matches my conception of it. Since no game has been released to compete it, I'm playing it sometimes, and it doesn't mean that I like everything about  it, that there's nothing I would like  to see changed. Once new tiles will be released such as PostScriptum and Hell Let Loose, I'm pretty sure I won't go back on FH2 except for nostalgia I guess :)

But no offense, FH2 is a great great mod, a lot of work has been put to it. That's just that time goes by.

Offline VonMudra

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 8.203
  • Traction Wars Developer- Research Dept
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #13 on: 03-02-2018, 19:02:14 »
The biggest thing is what others have stated- attempts to remove SL spawn have been playtested and generally have failed.  I believe Churchill's adage here is apt (with slight changes), that the SL spawn is the worst solution, apart from all the other ones.  SL spawn, while unrealistic, serves a purpose in simulating the reality of enemy numbers, infiltration tactics, etc.

Offline blander

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Removing SL spawn
« Reply #14 on: 04-02-2018, 01:02:22 »
I meant no offense, in fact I made another post about modding myself. I played a couple of WaW FH2 campaigns, I don´t know how many years ago was it exactly, maybe 8 or 9? I even said it has been wonderful to play it again and this is the suggestions fórum, so why can I not suggest something, even though it might not be the brightest idea?

But well, if it has been tested before and failed, I guess the SL spawn has a good purpose after all.

EDIT: I came back to play about 4 months ago, I took my time to make this thread.
« Last Edit: 04-02-2018, 02:02:54 by blander »