Author Topic: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?  (Read 642 times)

Offline Adûnâi

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Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« on: 07-08-2017, 20:08:07 »
There are two proper air war maps in FH2, namely, CMP Battle of Britain and CMP Bombing the Reich. By that I mean they are completely centred around aerial warfare where one side's planes come to bomb the enemy's targets, and the enemy fighters get off the airfields to challenge them, and face the escort fighters, and that's all accompanied by the tracer rounds from the ground (and even sea-based!) anti-air guns!

Why are such maps so rare and seemingly unpopular? Do people hate flying? Does it become boring too fast? Are they imbalanced in favour of some particular side?

After all, I can't even name a computer game that captures this fantasy! The closest is War Thunder, but it can't be compared with its pitiful 24 or 32 player maps! And with its disgusting 3d person view. FH2 is 1st person and it can support 80, 90, even 100 people on the server! It's incontestable, yet these maps barely see play! Why?

Some epic moments from BoB and BtR (FH1). And the tracer rounds going into the night sky!
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Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #1 on: 07-08-2017, 22:08:07 »
I don't think these maps are unpopular. They just don't come up that often on a server. 762 runs all maps plus CMP. I think FH2 has around 30+ and CMP the same or more (I don't feel like counting). Just low chances of them coming up whenever you play.

When they actually do pop up I feel like people really enjoy them. I, personally, really enjoy them cause it lets me fly without having to camp for a plane and the gameplay is fun for 30-40 min. Also, I'm not that good at flying so it gives me a better chance of shooting down planes without the anxiety of using such an important vehicle. Idk how other people feel (people who don't like flying etc...)

There's no official all air map in FH2, just those CMP ones you mentioned. I think there are some devs who don't see them as fun for one reason or another, but idk how they individually feel.

I'd like to see an official BoB someday :)

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #2 on: 07-08-2017, 22:08:46 »
IMO, problem is engine which was NOT made for ww2 game but modern combat. That is seen on physics of airplanes who fly like jets and overall all FH2 wepons are ,because game engine , very strong and precise. On that BoB map, look how german bombers are useless, in whole game just few kills; look how bomber gunners cant do absolutely  nothing but die lol. British airplanes are taking bombers like candies. Bf1942 is from start ww2 game and in air maps bomber gunner were very usefull to a line were one side had only bombers and other side fighters.  Plus that bf1942 version of BoB I DISLIKE very,map is super small at the moment and with low viewdistance IMO.

I dont know, maybe all this is posible to fix, but at moment Im not fan of air map.

EDIT: that was for bomber version mostly.  Now some fighters vs fighters BoB/ Kannalkampf with Dover cliffs in view... yep.
« Last Edit: 07-08-2017, 22:08:45 by Ivancic1941 »
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Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #3 on: 08-08-2017, 01:08:46 »
I don't like to fly, and they feel very clustered and a bit silly to me. I might like them, however, if pilots would wait for gunners to get into their planes before they take off! I like being the gunner but no one ever waits!  >:(

Ditto for the CMP Midway. I enjoy it for about 15 minutes and then find it a bit of a drag. But then again I love the Africa maps so maybe I am not exactly representative  ;D

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #4 on: 08-08-2017, 10:08:54 »
...After all, I can't even name a computer game that captures this fanstasy.

Here is your answer. Most of the people didn't come here to play fantasy game, and those heavily scaled down maps are pretty much fantasy and have nothing to do with things like actual battle of britain etc, unlike many other FH2 maps which are 1:1 copies of real thing. Flying is also very arcady in BF2 engine, less realistic than it even was in BF1942.

Offline MajorMajor

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #5 on: 08-08-2017, 11:08:47 »
I've never enjoyed flying in any of the Battlefield games, and FH2 is no exception. The problem with these two maps is that they offer very little in terms of gameplay: you are either in a plane or in an AA gun and that's it. In FH2 stock maps that are tank heavy (Alam Halfa, El Alamein, etc.) infantry still has an important role on the battlefield. Even if you don't enjoy tanking, you can still play as a tank-hunter, spot for artillery, take potshots at enemy infantry... Much more fun than being forced to play as a plane/AA gun.

And, as Jan mentioned, BoB is very cartoonish, with the channel being scaled to little more than a river. I can't comment on BtR since I haven't played it.

Offline Leopardi

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #6 on: 08-08-2017, 12:08:41 »
I've never enjoyed flying in any of the Battlefield games, and FH2 is no exception. The problem with these two maps is that they offer very little in terms of gameplay: you are either in a plane or in an AA gun and that's it. In FH2 stock maps that are tank heavy (Alam Halfa, El Alamein, etc.) infantry still has an important role on the battlefield. Even if you don't enjoy tanking, you can still play as a tank-hunter, spot for artillery, take potshots at enemy infantry... Much more fun than being forced to play as a plane/AA gun.

And, as Jan mentioned, BoB is very cartoonish, with the channel being scaled to little more than a river. I can't comment on BtR since I haven't played it.
Tank hunting is definitely something not portrayed as good in any other FPS game right now. Can't think of a more satisfying FH2 moment, than positioning that PaK 40 in really effective way, preferably so that you can get side shots at the incoming armoured spearhead - then wait for the perfect moment to open fire at the leading tank, to stop movement of the rest. You have now gained total control of the battlefield for the following minute, and that minute could very well decide the round for your team ;D

Offline FHMax3

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #7 on: 08-08-2017, 13:08:39 »
I've never enjoyed flying in any of the Battlefield games, and FH2 is no exception. The problem with these two maps is that they offer very little in terms of gameplay: you are either in a plane or in an AA gun and that's it. In FH2 stock maps that are tank heavy (Alam Halfa, El Alamein, etc.) infantry still has an important role on the battlefield. Even if you don't enjoy tanking, you can still play as a tank-hunter, spot for artillery, take potshots at enemy infantry... Much more fun than being forced to play as a plane/AA gun.

And, as Jan mentioned, BoB is very cartoonish, with the channel being scaled to little more than a river. I can't comment on BtR since I haven't played it.
Well BtR also scalled down the English Channel, but it is actually a good map. I shot down 6 enemy planes (German Side), and once, playing for the Brits, I brought down a Me-262.
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Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #8 on: 08-08-2017, 15:08:05 »
Well BtR also scalled down the English Channel, but it is actually a good map. I shot down 6 enemy planes (German Side), and once, playing for the Brits, I brought down a Me-262.
so... the score you get and your personal taste decides if map is good or not now? ::)

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #9 on: 08-08-2017, 15:08:14 »
I don't mind that they're so scaled. Maps like Gazala, El Al and any map with planes are hugely scaled but are still fun. It can be a nice change of pace, but only for about 30-40 minutes while the round plays out. I wouldn't want a 24/7 BoB server.

I guess I like that FH has so many battles represented. It's fun to pretend that you're taking part in the important (and unimportant) battles of WW2 and does its best to immerse you in them.

Sure, I'll get a more realistic BoB experience playing IL2. But in FH2, after I'm done defending Britain, I can hope in a T-34 on Arad. It's cool to get a huge range of WW2 experiences all in one.

Offline FHMax3

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #10 on: 08-08-2017, 17:08:02 »
Well BtR also scalled down the English Channel, but it is actually a good map. I shot down 6 enemy planes (German Side), and once, playing for the Brits, I brought down a Me-262.
so... the score you get and your personal taste decides if map is good or not now? ::)
I was rating that on my personal taste 
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Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #11 on: 08-08-2017, 19:08:44 »
I don't mind that they're so scaled. Maps like Gazala, El Al and any map with planes are hugely scaled but are still fun...
...add Siege of Tobruk and Mareth Line to that list. They can be fun, true. But you can tell those are all early FH2 maps, suffering from the scale and many other flaws. Of course there are others to suffer from that like Op. Cobra (which is one of the worst FH2 maps ever made IMHO), but that one was rushed into the official mod, made out of tournament map, only to give us the opportunity to play with american airplanes, which probably could wait and was a mistake.

Yet still, they offer something more than just planes, so they are some ups to make them play a bit better than unpopular air maps. Keep in mind, there are people who hate flying in FH2. I'm not a big fan of it too, and yet I loved the FHT version of Battle of Britian which IMO should take place of the vBF1942 remake in the CMP. It was much less arcadish and focused more on actual air battle instead of silly fantasy bomber runs full of kamizakes and people who don't give a flying fuck about their planes. Uneven and unbalanced gameplay (bombers don't stand a chance against fighters, their role is to drop bombs and die) deprived this map of an adrenaline rush a proper dogfight can give, since only destroying the objectives matters.

FHT version of BoB, while also being scaled down a lot, at least was based on an actual terrain, it was focused around air engagements and felt less crouded, since players were spreaded out around the huge flag zones, and not just a few tiny objectives, what added a little bit of realistic feel into it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUEXlUXbDoc

« Last Edit: 08-08-2017, 19:08:49 by jan_kurator »

Offline FHMax3

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #12 on: 08-08-2017, 20:08:00 »
I don't mind that they're so scaled. Maps like Gazala, El Al and any map with planes are hugely scaled but are still fun...
...add Siege of Tobruk and Mareth Line to that list. They can be fun, true. But you can tell those are all early FH2 maps, suffering from the scale and many other flaws. Of course there are others to suffer from that like Op. Cobra (which is one of the worst FH2 maps ever made IMHO), but that one was rushed into the official mod, made out of tournament map, only to give us the opportunity to play with american airplanes, which probably could wait and was a mistake.

Yet still, they offer something more than just planes, so they are some ups to make them play a bit better than unpopular air maps. Keep in mind, there are people who hate flying in FH2. I'm not a big fan of it too, and yet I loved the FHT version of Battle of Britian which IMO should take place of the vBF1942 remake in the CMP. It was much less arcadish and focused more on actual air battle instead of silly fantasy bomber runs full of kamizakes and people who don't give a flying fuck about their planes. Uneven and unbalanced gameplay (bombers don't stand a chance against fighters, their role is to drop bombs and die) deprived this map of an adrenaline rush a proper dogfight can give, since only destroying the objectives matters.

FHT version of BoB, while also being scaled down a lot, at least was based on an actual terrain, it was focused around air engagements and felt less crouded, since players were spreaded out around the huge flag zones, and not just a few tiny objectives, what added a little bit of realistic feel into it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUEXlUXbDoc
Agree. Op. Cobra is a piece of shit.
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Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #13 on: 08-08-2017, 20:08:59 »
Wasn't a tournament map though. It was made by some guy from BGF if I remember correctly. He never made another FH2 map after that. Natty had to heavily rework it and found evidence of staggering incompetence, like having bocage hedges placed as randomly generated overgrowth etc.

Offline Khaine

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Re: Why are air war maps so rare, few and unpopular?
« Reply #14 on: 08-08-2017, 20:08:20 »
Agree. Op. Cobra is a piece of shit.
And yet it's still better than any other map (or any content) you made.
You may not like it, but don't say it's a piece of shit, as for as I'm concerned, I really like this map, even if it has its flaws.