Author Topic: [WIP] Seez  (Read 517 times)

Offline Ivancic1941

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[WIP] Seez
« on: 27-07-2017, 21:07:19 »
Hi
Starting again mapping
Decided to work some map in Alps so I spent lot of time researching and it was quite a chalenge to find something interesting and good for map. Now want to ask first about idea



So map gameplay(push) is like Sammatus but fliped. Italians have some vehichles,tanks,mortar and French some ATs and maybe(but dont want) one tank.

Seez-field fortifications
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Italian_offensive_Bourg_Saint-Maurice-1940.svg/606px-Italian_offensive_Bourg_Saint-Maurice-1940.svg.png

Problem1: I dont see is there posibility to have field fortifications on sloped position LIKE THIS ONE,in front of Seez where Italians are advancing from Little Saint Bernard pass which is almost directly above them?its just little strange for me.. (also have another map idea for plan B)




Problem2: Microdem doesnt support 32bit version anymore.I have old PC. Cant buy and dont have money on internet so no paid heightmap programs.. Any free other out there which I can use for real terrain heightmap?
« Last Edit: 12-09-2017, 22:09:30 by Ivancic1941 »
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Offline GeoPat

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #1 on: 27-07-2017, 23:07:47 »
get your heightdata from here:  http://terrain.party/

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #2 on: 28-07-2017, 02:07:08 »
Nice to see someone trying their hand at a French map :D It's good to start this way by laying everything out like in TS's tutorial;
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=19731.0

I would love to see such a unique scenario in FH2, but it's also a very ambitious scenario to start mapping with. You may find out later that you have to switch to plan B. but regardless, here's a few things I would think about.

First off, if you haven't already, (you probably have) I would look at the map Monte Grappa from BF1 and use that as visual inspiration. This is one of the best looking maps I've ever seen in a video game and the visuals are very true to the main area.



Obviously, it's not the exact same place, but it is quite close.

Terrain
Since we're in the Alps, one of the main aesthetic features is going to be the huge mountains towering up beside you as you fight through the valley. The BF2 engine doesn't really do this type of terrain justice, so I would think about how you're going to make those mountains look good.

Having them outside of the combat area is helpful because none of the players will actually have to interact with them closely. You can maybe make them on the height-map and then use a clever color texture to make them look good. OR. You can not put them on the height-map and have them made as statics (similar to PdH's main cliff and the out-of-bounds mountains on Eppledorf).

Assets
You don't really have to concern yourself with this right now. BUT, if this map was to be made 100%, I'm sure you would need different Italian uniforms, maybe tanks or AT guns that we don't have and now that I think about it, new statics.

On the other hand, if a good enough map is made, I think people could pitch in and gather enough resources to make assets for it. Either way, making a map is good practice.

Layout
Sammatus layout is a good idea. It's a tried an true layout used on a lot of FH2 maps. I would just remember; as you make the map and lay out the terrain and roads, some of your original ideas might not fit. Maybe a flag you placed on Google Maps just doesn't work well with the height-map and roads you've laid out. Maybe some things need to be tweaked. Just remember that it's OK to improvise while you're still in the early stages. Read Reply #20 by Natty in this thread;
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=100.msg18504;topicseen#msg18504

He does a good job of describing the way he works and how he sets up his work flow.

I would also keep paths in mind. Make sure there are ways to get to each flag. A lot of people get hung up on the fact that they're re-creating an awesome battle and don't think of the fact that they're also making an arena for players to have fun in. TS has lots of good principals in here;
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=21296.0

Think about how the flags are laid out. Think about if you would have fun running around this area and between each flag. It's good to run around your map early, even if you've only laid out a height map and some roads/ major statics/ flags. Get a nice conceptual layout down, and flesh out the details from there :)

Good luck! :D Post here if you have questions or technical problems. I just started learning how to map months ago and I'm still learning a ton of stuff so it's a bit fresh in my mind.

Most importantly, post progress at Stages so people can give feedback :)

Offline MajorMajor

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #3 on: 28-07-2017, 09:07:45 »
Problem2: Microdem doesnt support 32bit version anymore.I have old PC. Cant buy and dont have money on internet so no paid heightmap programs.. Any free other out there which I can use for real terrain heightmap?

Try 3DEM. IIRC it works well for selecting the coordinates of a map that you need and converting your selection to grayscale (although you have to do this by hand).

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #4 on: 28-07-2017, 18:07:54 »
Nice feedback Matt ;)
90% of hills are into secondary terrain ,no fight on them. And if there were hils,they are not near as much of rocks and heavy terrain like in BF1 or that pic.
Im again checking all roads and paths so good so far. Yep,well french ATs woud be 25mm Hotchins which I hope are made ( ::)),statics are not need really,even church in seez looks fh2 generic,maybe some house so map is special,but not need.
Italians playermodels.. That is most tricky part.   And italian tanks are- M11/39 which is ingame and hehe italian tankette L3/35.

Geopat and Major,thanks  ;)
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Offline jan_kurator

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #5 on: 28-07-2017, 19:07:28 »
Good luck! I always wanted to see an Italy vs French map in FH2 in the Alps. The only problem I see is the mentioned lack of proper player models for the Italian team. But from what I've seen, existing FH2 italian models aren't 100% accurate either and probably not very far from what your map will need. The biggest difference will be the uniform colour, so maybe a retexture is possible (although that isn't an easy task either). Anyway, that's not important right now. Let's see how far your project will go, hopefully you will create an excellent map, and then somebody will provide the missing assets.

About the french equipment, well don't worry too much about that, one of the active devs is French!  ;)
If he will like your map, I bet he will find time to bake something for you. Such map would be a gate to release some of the already existing french equipment made years ago...
« Last Edit: 28-07-2017, 20:07:40 by jan_kurator »

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #6 on: 29-07-2017, 23:07:06 »
Thanks Jan! Good luck you too with your map  ;)

Have one problem that might force me to change to map idea B: this river that is going from up there in hills down... I mean, at Dukla situation was bit easier as sloppiness was lesser than mine.And all that waterfalls

Now here I got idea so I need to ask first two things
-How are waterfalls acting? Are they static effects so you can choose waterfall_2m or waterfall_5m? If are,  can they be put/rotate in any kind position in x,y,z coordinations?
-Is it possible to model/make new water effects? Is it complicated? And can they be made as example ; effect_5m so they can be rotate in any kind position?
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Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #7 on: 31-07-2017, 19:07:09 »
Ok guys anyone pls
-How are rivers and waterfalls made,where in editor?
-Can 30 or more waterfalls be put on map,performance?
- As I saw, you guys are making roads with detailtextures?
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Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #8 on: 31-07-2017, 21:07:54 »
I think the water falls are placed as 'statics?' But I'm sure sure since I've never done anything with waterfalls. Hopefully TS can chime in since he created Dukla. You can look in the static folders to see if they have waterfalls.

As for roads with detail textures, yes? All of the roads have road templates and there's a ton of existing ones in the mod. You can also create your own road templates (with a custom detail texture) tho idk how to do that as I just stick with the ones already in the mod.

You can see on this screen of Gold Beach;


that the rocky stream texture was done with a 'road.' As in Schism placed a 'road' there to get that texture. That's a bit more advanced level editor stuff tho.

Offline 0utlaw

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Re: [Still not even WIP, mostly asking for advice] Seez
« Reply #9 on: 31-07-2017, 22:07:17 »
Ok guys anyone pls
-How are rivers and waterfalls made,where in editor?
-Can 30 or more waterfalls be put on map,performance?

waterfalls and rivers can be placed like statics, with rivers  using the bf2 water planes (ie bf2 dragon valley). both are available in bf2, not sure if fh2 created or tweaked their own. bf2 water planes can be found in bf2/objects/water; bf2 waterfalls in bf2/objects/staticobjects/ambienteffects. there could be more or other locations for fh2, but im not too sure about that. i would assume the more waterfalls, the lower performance since those are ambient effects, so 30 may not be a good idea. not sure about the threshold, but try it out and see how many is too much. good luck with your project.
« Last Edit: 31-07-2017, 22:07:18 by 0utlaw »

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: [WIP] Seez
« Reply #10 on: 12-09-2017, 21:09:42 »
Whats with roads when saving " Do you want to check for obsolete  roads?" I think I mostly hit No.. or Yes, dont know. Just if someone can explain what to do in future

Also; for static/france/fences/ironfence1  I cant find only pole itself
« Last Edit: 12-09-2017, 22:09:02 by Ivancic1941 »
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Offline jan_kurator

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Re: [WIP] Seez
« Reply #11 on: 12-09-2017, 23:09:23 »
Also; for static/france/fences/ironfence1  I cant find only pole itself
Ironfence1 is a variant of eurowall1 or something like that, with an iron part in the middle instead of being made out of bricks/stones only. Try eurowall (also to be found staticobjects/france/fences), it has more modular parts, including 4 types of pillars.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: [WIP] Seez
« Reply #12 on: 13-09-2017, 00:09:37 »
I don't understand the roads thing either. I think it will search for splines that aren't 'connected' or something. I just hit no as well

Offline Seth_Soldier

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Re: [WIP] Seez
« Reply #13 on: 13-09-2017, 18:09:00 »
Remember to betatest your gameplay and general feeling before going into too much art !

Offline Ivancic1941

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Re: [WIP] Seez
« Reply #14 on: 13-09-2017, 18:09:41 »
Remember to betatest your gameplay and general feeling before going into too much art !
Yes,understand. Im always go ingame and little walk around to see how it looks.
Definitely, atmosphere will be awsome if finished,really alps. But Im still afraid how it will be under 100 ppl.

Edit; also if gameplay wasnt good, I can expand map to right.a lot space there for incorporate gamemod like sidi bou zid  if this sammatus fails
« Last Edit: 13-09-2017, 18:09:22 by Ivancic1941 »
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