Author Topic: German Road/Townsigns improvement  (Read 336 times)

Offline Knochenlutscher

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
German Road/Townsigns improvement
« on: 16-06-2017, 10:06:43 »
I hope I don't step on someone's toe or sound nitpicky.

Here my expertise on German Road/Townsigns.
In R/L I have studied Graphic Design,
one of my main courses was Typography,
Schriftkunde.

An Arial or modern derivate of the DIN 1451 Mittelschrift is
simply unhistorical and never appeared. In most cases a modern
DIN 30640 or similar was used and on top the Typo was after edited by
manually decreasing height of letters. This latter process is for Typo experts
a no go, Typo, Letters are to be used with caution, editing of height causes
the letters to be squeezed and is simply eyehurting.

In your example Monschau 20km über Simmerath 11km and
Düren 17km are fluxed this way.
Seelow and Berlin signs use a modern Type and squeezed editing.

Vossenack and Gey Signs are handled correct and in historical Typo.


Only a few use correct Fette Engschrift. Why?
The old DIN 1451 Mittelschrift is the follower of the older
Preußische Musterzeichnung IV 44 Ausgagabe 3.
Next to Mittelschrift the Engschrift came in to see wider use
to get readabillity of larger Textblocks. But was used also
independently.
Schildermaler were very accurate reproducing these Norm Schriften.
Of course they were so skilled as they had a wide repertoire,
sometimes altering the Normschriften to the hippest style at the
time or their own likings.

http://www.peter-wiegel.de/Preussische.html
http://www.peter-wiegel.de/alteDin1451.html

A Typographer/Schildermaler used Headlining (DIN 1451 variants)
and for more Information the Engschift and its derivates.
This responses to readabillity, the Engschrift could handle larger Texts
better together with the Headlining Mittelschrift.
Fette Engschrift was used extensively by the Germans to mark everything.

Please find below the historical old DIN 1451 in two alternatives,
standard and bold.
Here some Suggestions, using Free Fonts.
Warning, Typo altered the way it should be, not squeezing to fit.



Hope I gave some hints to easilly fix small aesthetics the way they should be.
My post is to boost immersion. My grandfather fought at Seelow, so this Map is
very special to me.

Best wishes
« Last Edit: 16-06-2017, 10:06:26 by Knochenlutscher »
"Klaatu... verata... n... Necktie. Nectar. Nickel. Noodle."

Offline Matthew_Baker

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.315
    • View Profile
Re: German Road/Townsigns improvement
« Reply #1 on: 16-06-2017, 20:06:02 »
This is cool :D some people will find this nitpicky, but I think it's helpful. (I've gotten into ww2 vehicle markings as a hobby because of this game after all :P)

I can tell you as someone who's created textures that the exact history of the fonts that were used was probably not taken into account when creating the signs. Usually when you create a texture for a game, the best thing to do is use historical photos and more-or-less copy them as much as possible without diving into as much research as you did here. That's probably what was done here. (I can't be sure tho since I didn't make the signs)

I can also say that the devs have a a lot more on their plate right now and adjusting these signs would be the least of their fixes. The best thing to do would be to create a version (kinda like you did) that is historically accurate. But one that the devs can just take and put into the game files. It looks like you already found the file where these signs are stored, so I would save a revised file in the same format and post it.

Maybe they'll use it, maybe they won't. Cool that your grandfather fought at Seelow :)

Offline Knochenlutscher

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
Re: German Road/Townsigns improvement
« Reply #2 on: 17-06-2017, 21:06:15 »
WW2 related I'm into Aircraft, active Texturer for IL-2 1946.

No problem. Glad someone took the time to notice. I understand it's not priority,
know about such issues as I I'm an active Modder for IL-2 too.
Anyway glad I can be of somekinda help and give winks.

Will post here stuff I stumbled across to not spoil the Forum endlessly.

I published a Curtiss Texture Pack, that I did intensely research for.
Crawling up Photographs, collections.
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=2036

Below FH2 Textures may not sit well. I don't own the Template, so I took my IL-2 Textures
and made it fit. May not be perfect as for rivetcounters, but more accurate as for markings.

Kittyhawk (UK) 112 sqn GA-Y AK772 / P-40E_kittyhawk_c
http://raf-112-squadron.org/112_photos_page_2.html



Kittyhawk for Mareth with correct C-Type Roundel RAAF 3.Sqn FL308 CV-C Bobby Gibbes

Although E version was outdated at that Time, the 112.Sqn Skin is not fitting here due to
the early B-Type Roundels. So I took a F version and most prominent Livery of Gibbes Kite showing
a nice Noseart.


Ju 52 keren static in Allied Main CP
I made fit a 50.Sqn SAAF livery for it



This is my Keren Map Italian Posters version, all AOI related.

Wasn't sure at the Fat Guy, if it's offending showing him?
A Mix of Colonial military and civil Posters. Hotel, Transports, Tourism, Cinema related

Best wishes
"Klaatu... verata... n... Necktie. Nectar. Nickel. Noodle."

Offline Dancho

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Mayonnaise king
    • View Profile
Re: German Road/Townsigns improvement
« Reply #3 on: 30-06-2017, 22:06:33 »
I just noticed your topic and I think you've done a very nice job. Can you put those textures on the FH2 models to see how it looks like? Also is the first Kittyhawk marking saying: "GAY"?

Offline Knochenlutscher

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
Re: German Road/Townsigns improvement
« Reply #4 on: 02-07-2017, 00:07:02 »
P-40E AK772 really was GA(Sqn allocation)-Y (aircraft allocation)

The FH2 version states GA-T on that serial, but that is a different kite.
My aim is historical correctness, not offence or provocation.
If Admins feel it has no place here,
simply drop me a line and I remove the stuff.

I'm atm. at the job redoing the Screenshots. Lost all in a clean up last weeks.
Can't be that fast, since I'm buisy at Il-2 modding too.
Have plenty of historical stuff that boosts immersion to share, but some
are WIP, since I need to test and see if it works how I want.
i.e. proper ital. Minefield signs (Map dependance can deplete this effort,
as a new static would be needed then, and that's not my job)
If I can do Textures, good, but more I can't...

Since my main subject is Aircraft Texturing and research most
is for the Airforces and Eyecandy accurateness.
-Fw190 Textures for Sidi Bou Zid or Mareth (Fighter & Jabo)
-Bf109E-7/B for late Desert Campaign (autumn 42/retreat...)
-Hurricane Skin for Greek Campaign
-Hurricane Skin Mk.IIC (Gazala)
-early desert Hurricanes (Beda Fomm, ...)
-Hurricane 1st Sqn SAAF for Keren

-British Halftrack (M5A1?)
-Keren Map italian Vehicle registration signs proper
Eritrean/ital conolnial or AOI style

I found glitches at Spitfire V (RAF), Fi156 Storch, Bf109F which I can correct as I did
these for IL-2 already and the subject should be fixed with proper alternatives
in time too.
Of course Luftwaffe inventory will not bear Swastikas.

That's in store, as said, pleasebe patient need time to build this Pack up.
When I have news I'll share info here.
Best wishes
« Last Edit: 02-07-2017, 19:07:48 by Knochenlutscher »
"Klaatu... verata... n... Necktie. Nectar. Nickel. Noodle."