Author Topic: 762 servers  (Read 1105 times)

Offline Sgt.Collins

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762 servers
« on: 24-01-2017, 23:01:19 »
Good evening everyone!

I'm making a topic about 762 servers here because I have trouble registering on their website.

There are some things that really bother me playing on 762 server, mainly due to their rules...

1/ ATTACKING RED CROSSED FLAGS

This is making a non-sense! Why the mapping guy would have crossed this flag in this situation if there are people actually wasting their time Killing people there and not in the cappable flags???

Some said to me "yeah but you know, back in the day, several men were trapped behind enemy lines and tried to slow the advance of the enemy..." Make sense, but explain to me where driving a kubel or a jeep, or even drop itself from a plane to be in a crossed flag to be able to "pre-cap" it is being TRAPPEd behind enemy lines...????? This is just ********* commando style action! Germen paratrooper weren't use that many times in WW2 and compared to the Allies, they were not good, the operation did cost them many men...

I'm really tired of thiss rule, I ragequit so many times, I play ne round and that's it, i'm sick of it. Just a few minutes ago, I was operating a 2pdr in the second defensive line of the siege of tobruk which was red crossed. Tank killed me with HE shells from the first line while moving towards cappable flag on the first ine of defense, that's OK. But after that, he drove right in front of me to kill me everytime i went repairing my gun. No problem from the point of view of server rules, I think there is! Then he got bored of it and drove towards last AUS flag, but once more, no problem with the rules!

I really think this kind of behaviour ruins the realistic approach of gameplay brought by the integration of PUSH mode. In WW2 and in that case of TOBRUk, hundreds of men rushed with tanks Rolling by their sides towards a wide  first line of defense, NO tank could have gone in Tobruk like that! No point of acting like that!

I'm really pissed by that!

2/ BEHAVIOUR OF SOME ADMINS

Last week, I was playing on the german side on La Pointe Du Hoc, this was the first map of the eving for me, when I joined, Us rangers were able (green circle) to take the last flag and to blow out the 155mm guns. In that case, I spawned on the bottom left point,next to the guns on the left flank. This makes you spawn in a field surrounded by hedgerows. A couple of deaths after that, I spawned once more on the same location, and a whole ******* squad of US rangers were behind us while spawning. I said to myself " OK... I hope their just flanking us but don't think of staying in this location for good" and a good part of the squad did run towards the guns to destroy the objectives, BUT the Squad LEader and a rifleman Jobbab Something (who actually killed me, that's why I remmeber his name) stayed in fornt of the hedgerows behind us to light any Wermarcht soldier spawning there. This made the US ranger team to win the map...

...and this was the first map I played that evening....

I reported the Jobbab guy using !r code but no response.

So my point is that admins (and I don't know everyone of them, so I won't be able to name the admin that night) are not always making their job. That goes without saying that I truely think some abuses their "powers" to allow them some forbidden behaviours like spawnkilling where spawnpoints are not that good and may be confusing, because they're too close to cap area or in the middle of a field, in the open, so that the spawnkiller can say for his defense, I'm playing the objective, you were in my way... but next time you spawn, you are lit up by the same guy or another guy from his squad. I saw Capro (I think he is admin, could be wrong) doing this!


CONCLUSION

Those issues are not linked with FH2 devs, work or coding. This is pure server running problem. This is so annoying to encounter them every single evening that I reduced my game time on this wonderful mode. I only play this that said, some will say " Well, you're not the center of the 762 world so get along with it"
So I wonder what you think about it? Do you think this rule has never been good? Did you hae problems with admins not making the rules respected?

I don't think i'm asking the moon there...

Reconsider attacking red crossed flags as baseraping basically.

and

Admin do their job without abusing

Thank You for reading!



Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #1 on: 25-01-2017, 04:01:56 »
Hey, thanks for the feedback. You would definitely be better posting this in the 762 forums. Not sure why you're having trouble registering :-\ but I'm one of the admins on the server so can try to clarify some stuff;

1/ ATTACKING RED CROSSED FLAGS

762 used to have a rule against attacking crossed flags. The idea was that it was detrimental to gameplay like the scenario that you described. However, it turned out to be more of a pain to enforce the rule than it was worth.

There are some flags on some maps that are almost impossible to avoid when they're crossed out. Think of the Bridge flag on Ramelle as an example. Shooting into that flag used to be forbidden once it was capped by the Germans. This lead to endless complaints and kicking/ warning people became a real hassle. Not to mention all of the people making false reports or reports on people who were 'borderline' in a crossed flag. The admins would spend more time reading reports than playing the game. It lead to a lot of frustration for all players. So the rule was removed.

I was actually against the rule being removed, but in hindsight I think it was a good decision overall. It lessened the headache for the majority of players and admins and now more people are having fun.

That's not to say those situations don't happen. I sometimes get frustrated by people who run into uncap flags also. But it's good to remember that they're doing nothing to help their team by sitting back there and camping. Now their team has one less person to attack the flags that matter. ;)

Quote
2/ BEHAVIOUR OF SOME ADMINS

Yes, I was actually in that squad along with Capro (also an admin) ;)

That situation on PdH was a tough one. We were down to one last gun and had about 50 tickets left to do it. We had tried hitting the final gun head on multiple times but our attacks were beaten back. Stor (our SLer) had the bright idea of going through the Homestead flag all the way to the North end of the map to outflank the German defenses.

It worked, we made it closer to the guns than any other squad. Unfortunately, there was a German spawnpoint in between us and our last objective. You gotta realize, we don't know where the spawnpoints are, so we started assaulting the gun in a desperate last attempt to win the map and on the way we noticed people spawning in front of (and in some cases behind) us.

In that situation we all did what any casual players would do and killed our way through the spawn point to win the game.

If the round wasn't about to end and we weren't about to lose the map, I'd have backed off the spawn. As a matter of fact, I tried running past the spawn a few times without killing anybody, only to be shot in the back by the people spawning :'(

So in that situation it's really kill or be killed, and we just happened to have the advantage. Imo it's not a good spawn point and something that should be changed on the map (but tbh I can't think of a better place to put it :P) it's not good to have a single spawn point for an entire team that isn't behind hard cover or an ABC line. I'm sure the mapper never thought the attackers would come from that direction, but no methods were put in place to make sure nobody could rape the spawn. I partly blame the mapper and partly the situation that we were all placed in being surprised to see the whole German team spawn in front of us. :P

Also, spawn raping isn't strictly against the rules. Which is why your report went unanswered. The idea is that if a spawn is getting raped, you should pick a different spawn point. And we don't kick or punish people who happened-upon a spawn point without knowing it. In hindsight, Capro and I didn't realize that it was the last spawn point on that map for the Germans. We were all engrossed in a game that was coming down to the wire so we really didn't think anything of it.

I can suggest some things internally to try and reconcile that spawn. but tbh that's the first time I've ever seen that situation so it doesn't happen often. I also can't say that I would kick anyone if I saw them doing it again. It's a tough situation, :-\ the US are allowed to go there. And as long as they're playing the objective and not camping the spawn point for kills, I can't blame them for doing all they can to win the map.

Odium or the head admins might see it differently tho.

Sorry you had a bad time on that round. I've definitely experienced my share of frustration being spawn raped while defending the last guns (only usually it's by commander artillery :P).

Hopefully the majority of rounds that you play on the server are fun and can make up for it :)


Offline Sgt.Collins

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #2 on: 25-01-2017, 11:01:06 »
Well... How sad that is...

Basically it's allowed to "baserape" crossed flags to reduce the load of complains and so that admin can play more. SAD.

"Aldo spawn raping isnt strictly against the rules" Just wow... And by the story from US perspective isnt really making me feeling good again...

What you say it's that you were behind spawn area, killed as many as german while running towards objective. I can understand that, but NOT leaving the SL there to be able to spawn again behind german spawn. Once you realized you were behind it SL could move out of there. But NO didn't happen... And you had time to relocate, even if you would have lost.

And... The fact that in this squad there was two admins is so unbelievable... But i was pretty sure there was at least one. Dont get me wrong, I know why my report didnt receive any response. And it sends clearly a message that admins do whatever they like  with rules.

Really Really really sad to read your answer.

I won't play mind free next time knowing what you wrote. Better be in admin team!

Damn...


Offline ajappat

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #3 on: 25-01-2017, 12:01:05 »
Since you so strongly believe that crossed flags should not be allowed to be attacked, tell me how the following situation should be handled?

You are attacking flag A, let's say with full squad. You are well withing the flag area, perhaps even capping it slowly. At the same time, enemy team suddenly neutralises flag B, making flag A uncap. Now you have situation where you have full squad at crossed out flag.

Now, what I like to do in this situation: I continue my attack, hoping my team get's flag B sorted out, so I can continue capping A. Also, staying here and killing enemies, will allow less enemies to advance from A to B, thus helping my team dealing with B. If my team is unable to take back B, I will fall back from A and attack B from behind.

If attacking crossed out flag was not allowed, I would already be breaking rules just by being there. So what would I do, fight my way out from there? I have done this and got kicked from server several times for it. Admin can't know if I was trying to retreat or just shot him for fun at "safezone". That pretty much leaves instant suicide as option and you won't see me doing that any time soon.

Situation with spawns is pretty much the same. In some maps, specially in citymaps with many active flags close to each other, you just sometimes end up attacking flag through enemy spawn point. You can't expect all players to know all spawn points on all maps and you also can't expect people to not shoot enemy player when one appears infront of them, specially when that enemy player WILL shoot back. If your spawn is too hot, spawn elsewhere. If that is your last spawn, it looks like you are loosing the game anyway.
« Last Edit: 25-01-2017, 12:01:07 by ajappat »

Offline Sgt.Collins

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #4 on: 25-01-2017, 13:01:09 »
I'm not as desperate as you are with crossed flags.

I never said that being in this type of area is actually "baseraping", it's the fact to kill somebody hopefully.

So in your situation, i would simply fall back away from safezone, and to be able able to attack again in case flag is capable again soon. I would find a suitable area to cut reinforcments in between those two flags but NOT inside the safezone. Easy. You may die while retreating but it's the game.

And for the spawnraping due to bad placed spawnpoints, I dont think you have to blame players spawning in hot places, because they have the right to do it to defend the nearby flag. Acting like you do, this would be anarchy. Guys would be standing in spawnareas as " spawnraping isnt strictly against the rules" forcing opposing team to spawn at the previous flag. And in that case spawnraping will be the winning strategy. This is insane, and this actually happens many times nowadays.

And once more, I understand that players dont know each spawnarea. So when I get killed spawning in the open while flag is under attack, I understand it. But in the Baker's situation, they realized it but stayed behind it to be able to reduce tickets drastically. When it happened i stop spawning so that the camera follows the guys that killed me. He didn't moved towards the next field where the guns were, he stayed around the rocks next to the spawnarea. That's called intentional spawnkilling! And it's allowed apparently due to the "spawnraping isnt strictly against the rules" espacially when admins are in that squad, sadly.

If I want fast gameplay, being flanked all the time because of green point SL spawnpoint, I play new gen BF games. This mod is made to bring accurate historical gameplay. If not there would be no Push mode and I wouldn't even play FH2. Because of no fronlines existing. There were basically no commandos during battles reenacted in the FH2 maps. I dont expect flanking ennemies. Maybe one or two lone shooters who've been left alone behind enemy mines, but not intentional strategy to precap ( so insane) inside cap area.

On Mareth Line, I saw an english SL landing his piper next to the flag where the nebelwerfer is. He stayed in the bushes while his squad mates moved to precap it. I left the game after seeing this. This is disguting.

So many SL try to flank hard, using this type of technics, because they know the maps, they know keypoints. And this ruins the maps gameplay. Lines of defenses are useless and here for decoration and ambiance almost now in some maps.

The only map where i see enjoyable epic attack To defensive line is Seelow heights. The maps design is like meant to avoid flanking in jeep or anything. This actually looks like real WW2 battle where hundreds of men charged with armor support. They have hard time and this is normal I guess. They have to coordonate, to work in team, this is what making the team wins. Not a well placed SL, hidden somewhere that flanked the defenses by landing his plane. And then another SL precaping in a safezone.

So many maps are played this way, this is so dumb.

« Last Edit: 25-01-2017, 13:01:18 by Sgt.Collins »

Offline ajappat

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #5 on: 25-01-2017, 13:01:04 »
I'm not as desperate as you are with crossed flags.

I never said that being in this type of area is actually "baseraping", it's the fact to kill somebody hopefully.

So in your situation, i would simply fall back away from safezone, and to be able able to attack again in case flag is capable again soon. I would find a suitable area to cut reinforcments in between those two flags but NOT inside the safezone. Easy. You may die while retreating but it's the game.

But that's the thing. How can admin determine if you are infact falling back? All he knows is that you shot him at crossed flag. What if it's just regular player reporting you for killing him at crossed flag? This rule can not be enforced in any regularity. Many times people actually breaking rules would not be punished, while sometimes people trying to play according to rules, might be accidentally punished. Edit: I would also argue that this is made up issue in the first place. Crossed flags are there so you can't cap flags behind front lines, transforming FH2 into game of tag.  They do just that and work well at it. Don't overthink it.

Quote
And for the spawnraping due to bad placed spawnpoints, I dont think you have to blame players spawning in hot places, because they have the right to do it to defend the nearby flag. Acting like you do, this would be anarchy. Guys would be standing in spawnareas as " spawnraping isnt strictly against the rules" forcing opposing team to spawn at the previous flag. And in that case spawnraping will be the winning strategy. This is insane, and this actually happens many times nowadays.

Again, how would you stop it? Make up rules that you are allowed to kill 1 but not 2 people at one spawn at a time? 2 but not 3? Not killing same player twice? How many meters one has to move in order to be not "freshly spawned"? Just saying spawnrape not allowed, is so vague and people will be yelling for admin to ban player that and this for it and admin likely doesn't have any idea if it actually happened. This again will lead to unjust kicks and bans, making many people just unhappy for no reason.

As for rest of your post, FH2 in the hearth of it, IS Battlefield game. Remove flanking and all the goofy stuff battlefield allows, this would be very boring game.  For more static gameplay, there are plenty of other games such as red orchestra series or verdun.
« Last Edit: 25-01-2017, 13:01:31 by ajappat »

Offline Sgt.Collins

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #6 on: 25-01-2017, 14:01:42 »
1/ Never said to shoot at people at crosses flags while retreating. You are in an "illegal" place, make yourself small and discret. If you get killed, it would be the rules. I just want to turn the rules upside down, to reward players going for circled objectives and not encourage anyone to be at crossed flags. That's all.

And if a player shoots at a player in safezone, warn him, not always kick first... It's called pedagogy. Especially for the time of adaptation to the new rules if they are changed.

2/ For the spawnrape. Never said that anyone would be allowed to kill one or two guys. I just said I understand that players killed me when i spawned in front of the as they CLEARLY ignored there was a spawnpoint here. And also that they kept running to the flag and not stayed in the vacinity to enhance their ratio.

And to launch the adaptation of this rules, once more stop kicking first! Warn people, explain them the reason why they acted badly.

There are clearly a problem with rules, as there are arguments on chat every night about someone abusing rules or anything.

To conclude, the overall response to adapt the rules is warning people. If a player is reported more than once, more than twice or more... He clearly doesn't respect the rules and has to be kicked with clear reason written.

That said clearly, admins would have more work to deal with if rules are changes espacially for the first months.

For the guffy gameplay, yeah I know other games more realistic, but the realistic result is not only due to the game itself, also to the spawning system that does not allow people to spawn on SL and if so (Verdun) the gameplay is intense enough to balance that, due to the tiny field of battle, basically a trench or bunker. And that defending team spawns right behind the trench and can react quickly.

But yeah, you're right, i'm starting to stop playing FH2 and actually play DH 44 45 or Heroes of the West, and if gameplay is as great as it's presented right now, I would replace my gametime from FH2 to postscriptum the bloody seventh slowly. But I would regret the diversity of theatrrs of war from FH2 even if PS dev actually said they would mke episodes to add theaters if they have enough income due to their success...

Anyway, slowly starting to desert FH2 because of server rules, yes.

Offline Alubat

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #7 on: 25-01-2017, 15:01:21 »
Game is much more fun now than before. Because of the rules change and all the new cmp maps that has been added map rotation

I really like the different layouts in both official maps and custom maps. Most map changes today is like entering a new game instead of just a change of weather. You never get bored or tired.
But its also the different map lay outs and gameplay in rotation that is a problem for some players.
The arrows and crosses should be looked at as a guide (for new players like the help voice in vanilla bf2) and not like traffic rules. Some new players dont understand why its there sometimes and not.
New players just need to play this game a lot more to understand it.
FH2 is like Woman. You can hate it and still love playing it  ;D

Sgt.Collins maybe You should try join the Forgotten Honor tournement

Offline Sgt.Collins

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #8 on: 25-01-2017, 18:01:48 »
Hey!

Thanks for the invitation but I dont think i will join FHT for technical reasons, my mic is not working well, tried it on your 762 TS.

And about layouts, sure that the diversity is a strength for FH2.

Crosses, arrows and circles are guides, indeed but need to be followed otherwise, why the mapper would have coded them? It's simply, just another mode as there are some different on PR, such as AAS, Insurgency ...

In FH2, you have Conquer (regular BF2) and Push mode ( that good that it made its way to BF1)

It's wriiten on loading screen to aware players, so no reasons people would not be able to make a difference, and by the way, as noticed, colored circles, arrows and crosses are well noticeable on mal and therefore on minimap for those who have it.

I feel that people give excuses to players who are borderline and spawnkills and so on, just like people trying to give background history to terrorists or rapers IRL on TV news.

If everyone is OK with spawnkilling for instance, no problem, I'll be a pro to it, as "spawnkilling isn't strictly against the rules" which I think is total bull****. I'll monitor admin decisions about it from now on. Be sure that this kind of rules will ruin fun, if everyone knows what has been written here.

Next time, i'll lead a squad behind spawns on any map because spawnkilling is not forbidden. Hopefully i'll habe admin on my team, maybe in my squad because I fear different vision and decision if admins are being killed in spawn area, i'm pretty sure, i'll get no warnings but kick quickly.

Have fun!
« Last Edit: 25-01-2017, 18:01:08 by Sgt.Collins »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #9 on: 25-01-2017, 18:01:21 »
...

What gave you the impression that soldiers didn't flank in WW2?

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #10 on: 25-01-2017, 19:01:32 »
CONCLUSION

Those issues are not linked with FH2 devs, work or coding. This is pure server running problem[...]

Erm...

1. There is no rule against attacking crossed flags.
2. This is not a server but a coder/developer problem. OH WAIT. IT is not a problem.
GUESS WHAT? It is working AS IT IS INTENDED TO WORK. SURPRISE!

So you are wrong.

Why? Because we play the game as the developers intend it to be played.
We had the rule, it did not work, it overworked our admins, it poisoned the atmosphere on the server.
Why? Because people like you complained and bitched every day.

So no. We will not re introduce it.
You get spawn killed? Use your brain and spawn elsewhere.

Btw. If you cannot wait -  answering of E-Mails or PMs is due in 2 Werktage. Don't understand that word?
Fine. Google it. If you cannot wait 2 Werktage for your account to be activated, not my problem.
I have a life and I am not being paid to wait 24hrs for you to make a forum account on 762.

Thanks to Ts4Ever, Ajappat and MattBaker for your replies!

Hey, Mr. Collins. - You can fix the spawn camping problem.
Make your own server, put that rule in and police it. See how far you get.

Have a nice day.

« Last Edit: 25-01-2017, 19:01:10 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #11 on: 25-01-2017, 19:01:01 »
2. This is not a server but a coder/developer problem.

Yes, if a spawn point is too exposed it is up to the mapping team to fix it, same with problems with push layouts etc. And no I will not fix it because I am lazy.  ;D

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #12 on: 25-01-2017, 19:01:30 »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline FHMax3

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #13 on: 25-01-2017, 19:01:07 »
2. This is not a server but a coder/developer problem.

Yes, if a spawn point is too exposed it is up to the mapping team to fix it, same with problems with push layouts etc. And no I will not fix it because I am lazy.  ;D
Me too. That's why on my map, the only thing there is terrain.
That other thread failed miserably and if you try to spam or flame here, I will break your arms.
FH2 won't be the last FH. ;)

Offline Sgt.Collins

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Re: 762 servers
« Reply #14 on: 25-01-2017, 19:01:55 »
Thank you Odium for gentle answer, I see you used very kind words.

"it overworked our admins", I bet this was the first motive to delete the rule.

"Because people like you complained and bitched every day" Maybe because people (like you?) actually broke the rule? Nevers thought of it? Surprising...

Finally, sorry about your ego, but I didn't know who was the head admin of 762, i didn't know how was called Sherman back in the day so I went to FH2 official forum to write. They I tried on PC to register again on your web site in ordre to male a topic linked to this one so that we can discuss. But obviously, you're being sufficient and I see no discussion is allowed ( how funny...).

TS4Ever.  They did flank, but tell me where common use tactics of flanking in current status of FH2 online gameplay are realistic ?

Like using fast jeep ( 4 seats) to be able to outrun any opponents so that SL can dismount and hide while his 3 guys move out while the 4 others spawn on SL.

Like using a plane instead of jeep and do the same thing, this is even worse! Ambiance killer, fun killer... So pathetic...

And as a retired serviceman, flanking is used by squads (8/12 men) on local, to deal with direct enemy forces, you flank a compound or house...
If you want to flank a whole defensive system, you use large scale units, a company, most of the time combined arms. I dare you to find actually events where an army sent a jeep with 4 guys, or landed a piper in order to disrupt forces.

Come on... Try to understand my point and stop doing little talks...

My point of view is pretty clear, why the hell spawnkilling is allowed? If anyone would do what Jobbab, Baker, Capro and the others did this game would be unplayable. Hopefully most of the players actually play the maps as designed, but those who know the limits go borderline when things get hard, and that's often the same guys, and as I visited 762 forums i see that the guys doing those things I said are from 762 community apparently...

I used to have fun back in the day because of the respect to players and to the gameplay apparently wanted in FH2. Now it looks like a competitive gameplay, " no matter what is the way of winning, we have to win this".

Last time, i was on Super charge, some said they were bored mostly british because their team lost. As complaints were written on chat, at least two players made their way in the village and killed german on defensive positions as the village flags weren't capable. This is basically ragekills due to the lack of combined coordinate teamwork on british side.

I think to sum up, server rules would better be rewarding teamwork, gameplay than just winning maps because it clearly make some "hard" players or competitive players to find talkable ways of winning. And if I read the few lines describing the mod on this web site "Forgotten Hope 2 is an award-winning World War II mod for Battlefield 2, covering all aspects of land, air and sea combat, with a focus on realism and historic accuracy"

I'm really sad to see your reaction, espacially you Odium. What the fuck is wrong with you? Really? I'm bitching because I doubt your decision to delete the rule was good? Because I dont think you were right?

Nobody forced you to be head admin so if you would be more polite when a player is willing to discuss, i'll thank you for that.
And if it's too much work to make rules applied, then stop being admin I guess! I've been moderator on a car forum, I got tired of it because some used talkable ways of writting shit like writting controversal/forbidden words by using espaces in between each letters so no warnings were launched. This was allowed, but still, it made shit happen on the forum.

Well I can't understand your reaction... Very sad.