Author Topic: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback  (Read 28172 times)

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #165 on: 15-02-2011, 16:02:54 »
I think it's worth experimenting with. Try close-range iron-sights without zoom and real-world aiming apparatus and lets see if it wont create a surprising success.

I for one can see less pixel aiming with this fact, more close-shots rather than ironsight snipers, and a clear advantage for snipers ingame... But like everything about this, its just theory until actually tested, imo

Offline Paavopesusieni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.401
  • Spongebob
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #166 on: 21-02-2011, 21:02:49 »
Firefights would take longer and hitting would take more skill, I like it. It's currently so easy to hit targets 400 bf2 meters aways with Lee Enfield.

Offline Kev4000

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.039
  • FH2 "special" coder
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #167 on: 22-02-2011, 18:02:19 »
Firefights would take longer and hitting would take more skill, I like it. It's currently so easy to hit targets 400 bf2 meters aways with Lee Enfield.

Did you measure the 400m? I'd be willing to bet 50 euros that you'd have some trouble hitting a live target at 400m with a lee enfield (unscoped). At 400m in FH2, you must aim about 2 meters above, and half a second ahead. If the enemy is prone, or moving, it is next to impossible.

But the field of view is already large in FH2, so distances seem further away then they are. I'm sure that you'll be surprised if you actually measure it. But that's also the argument for keeping zoom.

Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.764
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #168 on: 22-02-2011, 18:02:13 »
People over estimate ranges ingame. There is no map that has longer view distance than 600m. I dare you to consistently hit an infantry target at fog distance on Totalize.

Offline Kev4000

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.039
  • FH2 "special" coder
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #169 on: 22-02-2011, 19:02:08 »
For doing accurate measurements can use grids. On 2x2km maps like Totalize a grid is 256m. On 1x1km maps a grid is 128m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP95sNUVyY

here you can see at 1:35, took me 3 shots to hit a stationary target at 300m with a sniper rifle. Now I could hit him repeatedly after knowing exactly how high to aim at that distance, but judging this on the run on a moving, or prone target is much harder.

Offline hslan.totaler_humbug

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
    • hslan
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #170 on: 23-02-2011, 00:02:23 »
As for scopes, I think they're fine. The only disadvantage snipers have is that you can't adjust ur sights whereas on the k98 u can just laser people from over 9000 feet away.

This is a funny problem, but not from the side of the engine but the players mind. While using an uscoped weapong on longrange you will aim a bit above the target. The fun fact is that, when you are aiming with a scoped weapon you will also aim above the target, but not enough. This is because of two things:
1. The target seems closer than it is through the scope, making you aim lower in general
2. You know at least a little by heart how high to aim with the unscoped version, you might aim as high with the scoped gun, resulting that you will actually aim lower due to the zoom
3. With zoom aiming as high as with the unzoomed view will look higher with zoom than without.

This is what makes aiming with scoped weapons feels to be harder then with unscoped ones. But with a little practice you will adjust this, resulting that you hit much better. Also you can actually see the impact of the bullet with the zoom, so you can adjust your aim, while without zoom you have to guess if you have to aim higher or lower.
We need to be able, to throw Thermos out of Spotterplanes.

Offline kummitus

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
    • CMP Gaming
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #171 on: 23-02-2011, 01:02:01 »
That's why I've never been able to rack up shitloads of kills with sniper what I tend to do from time to time with regular rifles  :P

Could do with some practice perhaps.
CMP Gaming

Offline Paavopesusieni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.401
  • Spongebob
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #172 on: 23-02-2011, 08:02:37 »
Firefights would take longer and hitting would take more skill, I like it. It's currently so easy to hit targets 400 bf2 meters aways with Lee Enfield.

Did you measure the 400m? I'd be willing to bet 50 euros that you'd have some trouble hitting a live target at 400m with a lee enfield (unscoped). At 400m in FH2, you must aim about 2 meters above, and half a second ahead. If the enemy is prone, or moving, it is next to impossible.

But the field of view is already large in FH2, so distances seem further away then they are. I'm sure that you'll be surprised if you actually measure it. But that's also the argument for keeping zoom.

Actually I killed 4 guys in Siege of Tobruk with 5 shots might have not been 400 BF2 meters but it sure was a lot (my sights were as big as targets). I was a Brit and had walked bit forward from the front line and the Germans were running on the hill in front of me, then I just layed down and shot them, that doesn't happen too often but it when you have had 3 long range Africa maps in a row you start to get hitting people in huge ranges.

Also killed a German 88 gunner in their base in Gazala from the hill to east and have done that fairly many times, only problem is that the 88 usually get in front of the guy otherwise it ain't THAT hard.

But the point was that if the zoom in 1x then it's harder to shoot at medium range that is currently easy, especially in Normandy where engagement ranges are ~50 meters. IF the zoom would be smaller you might even have a chance running trough the field without getting killed by the first shot. This would make machine guns also much better and machine gunners might not die right away after being spotted (after first kill or burst) if the rifleman can shoot a bit.

IMO it really worth a try.

Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.764
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #173 on: 23-02-2011, 18:02:39 »
Or... just don't run through open fields.

Offline Paavopesusieni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.401
  • Spongebob
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #174 on: 23-02-2011, 18:02:03 »
That's not the issue...

Offline Galslacht

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #175 on: 13-04-2011, 15:04:49 »
Why do so many people think FH2 has realistic weapons?

It has not. One shot one kill pinpoint accuracy on all rifles (yes, I know, BF2 engine limitation) isnt realistic at all. There are no actual ballistics like you see in RO and DH. Im glad PR tries to mimic ballistics, but when people say FH2 has realistic weapons, it's nonsense.

I die alot more in FH2 than in PR or Darkest hour, using the exact same tactics. FH2 is flawed with the weapon-system imho.

There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho. Makes it all the more a fragfest, for WW2 FPS I'd rather play Darkest Hour instead of this.

Offline Thorondor123

  • God Emperor
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6.573
  • Lugbûrz-ûr!
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #176 on: 13-04-2011, 15:04:57 »

It has not. One shot one kill pinpoint accuracy on all rifles (yes, I know, BF2 engine limitation) isnt realistic at all. There are no actual ballistics like you see in RO and DH. Im glad PR tries to mimic ballistics, but when people say FH2 has realistic weapons, it's nonsense.

I die alot more in FH2 than in PR or Darkest hour, using the exact same tactics. FH2 is flawed with the weapon-system imho.

There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho. Makes it all the more a fragfest, for WW2 FPS I'd rather play Darkest Hour instead of this.
In FH2, if you get hit by a rifle bullet to head or torso, or upper legs or arms you die. Would you not be incapacitated by that in real life? Also, rifles are accurate, as they should be. However, that means nothing if the player isn't a good shot.

As for ballistics, yes, FH2 does have ballistics. Have you used a marksman rifle or a scoped machine gun? It is easier to see the ballistics since FH2 does not have any nonsense like BF42 tank ballistics. In PR, the weapons shoot into random direction (artificial deviation), that is not ballistics.
Let mortal heroes sing your fame

Offline Lightning

  • Dreamcrusher
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.517
  • FH2 Dev
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #177 on: 13-04-2011, 16:04:42 »
There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho.
What would you change? We cannot add weapon sway like Red Orchestra have. The best we can do would be to increase the size of the cone of fire on the rifles, so that there's a degree of luck involved in hitting your target. Would that be a better option?

Offline LuckyOne

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.712
  • Purple Heart Collector
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #178 on: 13-04-2011, 16:04:55 »

What would you change? We cannot add weapon sway like Red Orchestra have. The best we can do would be to increase the size of the cone of fire on the rifles, so that there's a degree of luck involved in hitting your target. Would that be a better option?

No. I like it the way it is... it still takes skill to shoot people especially at longer ranges, and on short range you often miss with your rifle...just because it is pinpoint accurate...(and because of BF2 weird hitboxes :P)
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.764
    • View Profile
Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
« Reply #179 on: 13-04-2011, 17:04:24 »
I don't see how random deviation is more realistic. People act as if having 100% accurate rifles means that 100% of all shots hit. This is not the case, as people make mistakes. The only thing that makes the gameplay spammy and the casualty rate high is the fact that most battles take place over less than 75m. Even I could hit someone over that range irl. I can't tell you how sick I am of people coming in here saying "You can hit people over 1000m hurr durr" when in reality they are only shooting over 60m. Try hit someone consistently at fog distance in Gazala (which would be 600m).