Author Topic: Battlefield "1"  (Read 10071 times)

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #45 on: 13-05-2016, 21:05:32 »
Great to have this anecdote straighten out.

Anyway that last guy looked like Indian to me.

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #46 on: 13-05-2016, 21:05:35 »
Nope, he's definitely black:

Music Master Gustav Sabac el Cher, 1st Prussian Grenadiers

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Sabac_el_Cher

As for the drummer in Lifeguard Hussars, he was an orphan from Camaroon who was adopted by a white German family and brought back to Germany when they moved back:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_Sambo

He was in 1st Lifeguard Hussars as a drummer.  The first two are unknown infantry troops, the one at top being a high ranking NCO as he is equipped with the NCO sword and officer's troddel.

Another black German infantryman:



And here's a photo of the drummer in Lifeguard Hussars:

« Last Edit: 13-05-2016, 21:05:40 by VonMudra »

Offline Alakazou

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #47 on: 14-05-2016, 04:05:28 »
lets see..black guy with cape holding german pistol...it seems this gonna be soooo realistic..
i would play verdun instead of this

I really don't understand that view. Seriously, people here, should stop complaining about how a game or a movie set in an historical context is not historical.

It's not something surprising. "Historical" movie or game are art. Arts doesn't need to be accurate to be fun or good. It's arts. The same way science in movie or game doesn't make sense, history doesn't need to make sense.

In my opinion, if someone seek historical knowledge in movie and games, they are wrong and naive.

That said, "historical" movie or game can make people to be interest by history. I'm one of them. When I was 9 years old, I saw Saving private Ryan at the local theater and it spark an interest about WW2 and War. Sure it's not historical at all, but it spark an interest.

Those who reject arts because it's not historical have a wrong view of what is arts.

I'm really looking forward to play to BF1 and I know I will have way more fun than Verdun. Not that verdun is a bad game, but it have to many issue in my opinion.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #48 on: 14-05-2016, 05:05:54 »
That said, "historical" movie or game can make people to be interest by history. I'm one of them. When I was 9 years old, I saw Saving private Ryan at the local theater and it spark an interest about WW2 and War. Sure it's not historical at all, but it spark an interest.

^This. I had no real interest in WW2 until I started playing Forgotten Hope, hearing the devs claim that it was 'historically accurate' and then doing my own research to verify it.

I'm doing this even now with 'Battlefield 1.' I've never had much of an interest in WW1, but this announcement has sparked it a little more. I've even subscribed to 'The Great War' channel and I'm slowly catching up on all the weeks I've missed since it started :)

Also, I'm not the only one. 'The Great War' did a unique video in response to all their new 'Battlefield 1' subscribers breaking down the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvzEZ1Sq4tI

It's what you'd expect, but I really like what he says at the very end;

"Overall, it is an entertainment product. And you probably won't get an accurate depiction of the horrors of the war. However, the trailer already shows a lot of aspects that are usually forgotten when talking about this war; the different theaters, the different vehicles... so it's definitely applaudable that the developers took a look at the whole conflict and all its aspects.... looks like a lot of fun tho..."

Really cool channel btw. You only need to watch 1 video a week and you learn a lot.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #49 on: 14-05-2016, 06:05:55 »
I hold on to that view a lot of times, even now. But you will get a lot of "US army uniform is in wrong colour here." A couple of times and "respect our veterans" and show WW2 costume players dressing in US GIs Saving Private Ryan's on-screen uniform colour.

But let's say, this game is positive.

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #50 on: 14-05-2016, 16:05:54 »
I'm doing this even now with 'Battlefield 1.' I've never had much of an interest in WW1, but this announcement has sparked it a little more. I've even subscribed to 'The Great War' channel and I'm slowly catching up on all the weeks I've missed since it started :)


I'm really sorry to break this to you.  I had to respond to inquries about The Great War channel on the traction war forum, so here's what I posted there:

Quote
I'm sorry to say this, but that youtube channel is just....ok. I've watched a bunch of their videos, and while they sometimes have pretty good information, other times I just want to slap that guy. He's not a historian (he's an actor), so let's just get that clear, and he barely uses any sources in his work (yes, I know, he lists them), and those that he does use are mostly general histories or pop-histories. A lot of his broader information is therefore good, but when he gets into the details, or worse yet, gets into character studies, he stumbles hard and puts out mostly pop-mythos, or just flat out incorrect information.

Offline Alakazou

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #51 on: 14-05-2016, 17:05:55 »


^This. I had no real interest in WW2 until I started playing Forgotten Hope, hearing the devs claim that it was 'historically accurate' and then doing my own research to verify it.

I'm doing this even now with 'Battlefield 1.' I've never had much of an interest in WW1, but this announcement has sparked it a little more. I've even subscribed to 'The Great War' channel and I'm slowly catching up on all the weeks I've missed since it started :)

Even today, after having a degree in anthropology with a specialization in archaeology, with a minor in history with a archivist degree (here it's a 1 year university degree) I will play a game like Assassin Creed it will still spark interest. Black Flag for example, remind me that piracy was something interesting from an historical perspective. So I did some research about it and found many book (History and archaeology) about it.

Because of BF1, my next book I will read will be Seven Pillars of Wisdom I have bought 2 or 3 years ago but didn't have the time to read it. Etc.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #52 on: 14-05-2016, 17:05:17 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l20il6AHlWo

An analysis of the trailer. Pretty interesting that he missed the black German guy.

Could be an Ottoman soldier too though. Also, that black guy at the end of the trailer is part of Early Purchase bonus: Harlem Hellfighter themed sets.

God I wish so much this isn't made for a console!
« Last Edit: 14-05-2016, 17:05:27 by Zoologic »

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #53 on: 14-05-2016, 18:05:33 »

Also, that black guy at the end of the trailer is part of Early Purchase bonus: Harlem Hellfighter themed sets.


Exactly my worst fear.  What a disservice to the actual harlem hellfighters to represent them like that....  :-\

Offline Slayer

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #54 on: 14-05-2016, 21:05:33 »
I'm really looking forward to play to BF1 and I know I will have way more fun than Verdun. Not that verdun is a bad game, but it have to many issue in my opinion.
Did you play the latest version? Many issues have been resolved :)

About your argument: I see what you mean, but as a history teacher I have to correct views of kids very often. They take those views from watching a movie or Youtube, and although you are right about people looking for history in a movie being naive and wrong, most people are not actively looking for history there, but they are being fed "history" passively while watching something like SPR. Fortunately, kids are flexible and can bend their views quite easily after some explanation/education/research. Adults however are much more stubborn, they will not even admit they they start to believe something is historical just because they saw it in a historical drama, but that happens very often.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #55 on: 14-05-2016, 21:05:59 »
I'm really sorry to break this to you.  I had to respond to inquries about The Great War channel on the traction war forum, so here's what I posted there:

Don't be sorry, I don't have any disillusion that everything I read or hear is gospel ;)

That's exactly what you watch the channel for, a general timeline of WW1. It's a way to present the history of WW1 in a (more or less) visual manner. When it comes to details or character studies of major generals, that's something that not even professional historians can be objective on tbh.

You have to take any history with a grain of salt anyway. No history that's re-told or re-written (even first hand accounts) is 100% accurate, because nobody that's ever lived is completely free of bias.

The channel isn't out to spread disinformation tho. It's a really good way to educate the layman on the broad history of WW1, and if you want more detail, get into more detail. He even mentions to read through other sources yourself because there is alot more info in them than can be gotten from five to 10 minutes per week.

Exactly my worst fear.  What a disservice to the actual harlem hellfighters to represent them like that....  :-\

Considering all video games based on real conflicts turn war into a literal game that people can have fun with. Wouldn't they all be considered a disservice to the actual people that fought there?

It's a video game, it's meant to bend history. Why does it matter to what degree it actually bends history?

Offline Slayer

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #56 on: 14-05-2016, 21:05:17 »
Why does it matter to what degree it actually bends history?
Because of this ;)
...most people are not actively looking for history there, but they are being fed "history" passively while watching something like SPR. (...) they start to believe something is historical just because they saw it in a historical drama

Offline NTH

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #57 on: 14-05-2016, 22:05:24 »
As long as you have a correct high level view a game dev or movie director can have some artistic freedom while justifiably using the label or meta data "WW1 theme".
Let the young ones learn something about the pre WW1 era. They don't teach it in Netherlands for sure ...


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
(From: First in the Field, Gault of the Patricias by Jeffery Williams, page 72.)

Offline Slayer

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #58 on: 14-05-2016, 23:05:23 »
Let the young ones learn something about the pre WW1 era. They don't teach it in Netherlands for sure ...
Sure they do ;) You didn't get any lessons on the Dutch Revolt and the Republic of the Seven Provinces?

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Battlefield "1"
« Reply #59 on: 14-05-2016, 23:05:39 »
...most people are not actively looking for history there, but they are being fed "history" passively while watching something like SPR. (...) they start to believe something is historical just because they saw it in a historical drama

If that's the case then I wouldn't take issue with DICE trying to make a fun video game. I'd take more issue with the people thinking that the video game is an accurate representation of history.

It's not the DICE devs' job to educate people on WW1. It's their job to make a fun video game that sells well. Just like I don't bemoan the Assassins Creed devs for twisting history or The Revenant for fictionalizing Hugh Glass' story etc... 
« Last Edit: 14-05-2016, 23:05:43 by Matthew_Baker »