Author Topic: AP-mine Gameplay  (Read 1780 times)

Offline Airshark79

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AP-mine Gameplay
« on: 14-04-2016, 09:04:33 »
Hi,

AP-mines(smines) are still clunky as hell, the maps are still full of chokes, and I havent seen a single s-mine being dismantled by engi in my last two+ years. It's always a brave soul going isis and blowing himself up on a mine for his comrades.

IMO, to solve this you should allow bullets and explosives to interact with s-mines. I don't know what it should take to blow them up, but that's something which should be on the table.
« Last Edit: 14-04-2016, 10:04:05 by Airshark79 »

Offline Stubbfan

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #1 on: 14-04-2016, 11:04:02 »
It is on the table

Offline Airshark79

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #2 on: 15-04-2016, 00:04:00 »
Thanks

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #3 on: 15-04-2016, 01:04:44 »
Overall I think it would be nice to have knives or your primary weapon be able to disable mines, but that would take an huge overhaul of the system I think

Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #4 on: 15-04-2016, 21:04:24 »
Of course this sneaky evil weapon is still "clunky as hell" after 3 nerfs it received.

A little suggestion, just remove it from the game since our online rifleman so desperately want some nobel gun fight without it and would not budge on revisionism.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #5 on: 15-04-2016, 22:04:26 »
It definitely needs an easier way to be disabled, crawling is too damn unreliable when you teammates like to rush in no matter the consequences.

Is there at least a possibility for the scout class to get a few mine flags to warn teammates easier? Or is there a limitation that all the slots are taken?
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Offline Airshark79

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #6 on: 16-04-2016, 01:04:03 »
I've never seen a mine removed by engi, so I don't believe the scouts will take the time to make sure teammates don't die on a mine, especially when there is no score in line.

That's my take on the flag idea

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #7 on: 16-04-2016, 12:04:32 »
Well yeah the mine removal by engi happens quite rarely, but it's not exactly a smart idea to go de-mining stuff if you can't at least warn teammates about it in an intuitive and easy way (no, chat does not count because they either won't see it at all or know what the hell are you talking about).

At least if the scout had a few mine flags he could warn teammates easier, and scouts are probably more likely to be paying attention to mines than other classes because they tend to look for good mining spots more often...
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Offline GeoPat

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #8 on: 17-04-2016, 04:04:18 »
AP mines were my least favorite thing when I started playing this mod.  They just seem un-historical.  I suppose the mines themselves fit WW2 but the way the players use them seems too modern warfare.  They use them like special forces anti-pursuit mines or quickie booby traps.  I could be wrong but I don't think scouts and snipers carried them in WW2.  I suggest limiting them to special engineer pickup kits in defensive positions.  Maybe you could even have vehicles that deploy groups of them and static AP mine fields around some flags.  It would be really cool if they had a 4 second delay and launched a munition up to eye level before exploding.

Offline Nerdsturm

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #9 on: 17-04-2016, 06:04:01 »
I agree, the way AP mines are implemented always irked me as it just doesn't match the feel of the rest of the game. Specialty kits like snipers having them is fine, but they mostly act as booby traps which shouldn't be in a standard soldier's kit.

Plus they just don't work well in the engine. They clip through objects, they can't be disarmed by gunfire, and if one's on stairs or a steep slope literally the only way to get past is to suicide through it.

Offline justasug

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #10 on: 17-04-2016, 11:04:35 »
I agree, the way AP mines are implemented always irked me as it just doesn't match the feel of the rest of the game.
They clip through objects, they can't be disarmed by gunfire, and if one's on stairs or a steep slope literally the only way to get past is to suicide through it.

I have never seen any clipping issues, even when they could still be placed on walls.
You're complaining that they don't match the feel of the game, yet you want something as arcadey as defusing mines by shooting them.
Regarding mines on stairs: utilize engineer kits. Isn't that one of the things you people are complaining about? Engineer kits, with their wrench and mine markers, are actually useful. You could also just crawl over mines without triggering them.

As someone else already mentioned, they've been tweaked a couple of times already and made "weaker", yet people are still complaining about it. Most likely because they don't want to pay attention to the ground they're walking on. Spotting mines isn't an issue when they're sticking out of the ground. It seems to me that everyone just wants a more casual experience and to die less, by removing a solid gameplay mechanic that they can't deal with.

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #11 on: 17-04-2016, 12:04:32 »
Every game has that one "cheap" weapon (noobtubes in CoD, P90 in CS). These are actually important, because they allow the less skilled player, or in our case, the player with an American or Asian ping, to also be effective and useful in combat. The art is to make sure that these weapons are not so strong that also really good players use them. Meaning they have to be effective, but more skillful weapons should be more effective in the right hands.
I think with this nerf the smines work pretty well in that way. Before, they were so common (and planted so quickly) that for many people the only way to enter a house was prone. ;) As you can imagine, that is not really how we want the mod to play. Now they are still useful for area denial, but at least can't be spammed everywhere and basically used as a primary weapon. The noobs are finally back in their bottom feeding place :D ;)
Regarding realism: They are more representative of booby traps than actual mines.

Offline Airshark79

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #12 on: 17-04-2016, 14:04:24 »
mg's and tanks already take that position imo.. high ping..camp and spam HE, bullets

Quote
Regarding mines on stairs: utilize engineer kits. Isn't that one of the things you people are complaining about? Engineer kits, with their wrench and mine markers, are actually useful. You could also just crawl over mines without triggering them.

Well I made the thread because that something nobody does, even at a remotely competitive level.

Offline FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #13 on: 17-04-2016, 16:04:47 »
Every game has that one "cheap" weapon (noobtubes in CoD, P90 in CS). These are actually important, because they allow the less skilled player, or in our case, the player with an American or Asian ping, to also be effective and useful in combat. The art is to make sure that these weapons are not so strong that also really good players use them. Meaning they have to be effective, but more skillful weapons should be more effective in the right hands.
I think with this nerf the smines work pretty well in that way. Before, they were so common (and planted so quickly) that for many people the only way to enter a house was prone. ;) As you can imagine, that is not really how we want the mod to play. Now they are still useful for area denial, but at least can't be spammed everywhere and basically used as a primary weapon. The noobs are finally back in their bottom feeding place :D ;)
Regarding realism: They are more representative of booby traps than actual mines.

just dont nerf the smoke grenades... please i beg !

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: AP-mine Gameplay
« Reply #14 on: 17-04-2016, 20:04:51 »
Having played a bit with mines recently I'd say the nerfhammer hit a bit too hard this time. At least the rearm time should be lowered a bit, because frankly they aren't really worth the effort now.

Your probability of successfully placing a few of them during battle is quite low (because of the average survival rate in FH2), especially on flags where ammo boxes are non-existing or in an exposed place, and then there's the whole issue of actually managing to kill someone with them (teamkills are much more likely) as the players are quite adept at spotting mines in well known bottlenecks...

I agree with the ammo reduction, and even the fix on deploying them on walls, but the rearm rate needs a buff if you still want the general player population to use them, not just the high pingers that have no other viable option...
« Last Edit: 17-04-2016, 20:04:17 by LuckyOne »
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