Author Topic: CMP - The mappers present their maps  (Read 4096 times)

Offline PapillonFH

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CMP - The mappers present their maps
« on: 18-11-2015, 22:11:56 »
Hello mates,
i want to give you guys some insight into the maps in the Community Mappack (aka CMP, see http://www.762-ranking.de/site/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=183). Which are the maps, how do they look, what is the history, behind them, which equipment is used and so on.
I want to start with Etna Line.
Here is the minimap of the 64 layer:
(http://i.imgur.com/dbIilKll.jpg)

The map is a classic of Forgotten Honor and has been played successfully in many campaigns. It features a lot of the custom Italy statics created by the modders at FHT.

Etna Line is based on the Battle of Troina on Sicily 1943 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Troina) where the US 7th Army clashed with the 15th Panzer Grenadier Division and Italian units.

The map is a big map, it is 2048 with a very big combat zone and is mainly characterized by open rolling hill country with sparse overgrowth, and a central city. The map features 7 flags: A cluster of three flags in the city of Troina and four flags east of that in a rough North-South line.

The US attack and need four flags to bleed the Axis, and thus has a big pool of vehicles to select from, whereas the Germans have a more limited and weaker vehicle pool.
Both sides have two mainbases where the equipment spawns.

The US has a B25 bomber, whereas we gave a Ju88 to the Axis, so both sides have a medium bomber at hand.


(http://i.imgur.com/daRpF3X.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/qFMOrPX.jpg)

The map is without push, so you have every opportunity to move around the map and cap flags. Due to its size, it's best played with 70+ players, but then it can be big fun. The three city fights can make up for good close quarter combat, and each fo the four outlying flags has its own flavour.
View of Troina with its three flags:

(http://i.imgur.com/rBSSXGj.jp)

(http://i.imgur.com/BC4YRk2.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mmy0SgH.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/w8l1mLd.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/fIuI54C.jpg)

The Monastery Flag. A small cluster of buildings, surrounded by dense olive grovess

(http://i.imgur.com/JVWiqER.jpg)

The Roadblock Flag. Open country, entrechned and covered by 88 Flak:


(http://i.imgur.com/KTFwAlv.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/Ri9VPjS.jpg)

The Valley Battery Flag. Which actually does not feature a Battery, but it's fun anyway:


(http://i.imgur.com/p6pxW84.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/b6MAEAk.jpg)

The Headquarters Flag. A closed compound with lots of cover.


(http://i.imgur.com/BDYNHui.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/0pYZUVI.jpg)

Hope to play many a good round on this map.
Feedback is welcome.

Cu soon, then with a short overview over the map "Advance to Foy".

Regards, Papillon

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #1 on: 19-11-2015, 04:11:00 »
It's a cool map. I remember playing this a bit on the first version of the CMP. The Italian statics are pretty well done and the atmosphere is very Italian ;D I especially like that the layout is based around a real place.

The only real drawbacks are the gameplay and immersion factor for me. This map's a bit too big imo. I remember it always taking quite a while to get into battle from any given point unless your squad leader was hiding in Troina. And running to the outside flags in a car would usually end with our squad getting gunned down in a valley somewhere.

I really had the most fun fighting in Troina mostly because getting into battle there didn't take a long time. The flags are well spaced for infantry and the fighting was fun.

I know thee's a bit of a split in the community on gameplay, but for a public server where teamplay isn't as strong I would make a few suggestions. I would remove the headquaters and roadblock flag to tighten up the fighting towards the center of the map. I would also move the main bases (everything except the airfields) closer to the flags and tweak the roads into the fighting areas to be a bit less windy. This would make all of the map more infantry friendly and make getting into battle a lot easier for the casual player.

Immersion factor-wise it'll never be 100% without proper Italian models and reskins for all vehicles :P, but there are a few overlooked things like grass growing in roads, trenches not matching the ground etc.. that could be cleaned up. I can walk around and post a bug list when I get more time. There are also some things like sniper rifles laying on the ground and vehicles spawning without any context that would help make it feel like a real war zone :)

For me, it's one of the better CMP maps overall because I can sometimes get immersed in the fighting. If people are actively working on this I'll try to find some easily fixable bugs that would help make this look and feel like a great map.

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #2 on: 19-11-2015, 08:11:02 »
As Papillon said, the map offers free movement for a big number of players.
This is one of its unique features and sets it apart from many FH2 maps.
If you play it with 50+ players, bombers zooming overhead, infantry in the fields,
snipers hanging out on flags especially like Roadblock - which is a base for flanking
maneuvers - and tanks rolling across the countryside, it reveals its qualities.
Therefor the 64p layout should not be shrinked in any way.

Instead of that, we could rather take suggestions on how to
shape the 32p layer (which will be played on [762] servers with player numbers
between 25 and 50). That way you can avoid the feeling of getting lost.

It also sports a nice, 3-flag layout for the 16p layer (which will be played on [762]
servers with player numbers between 1 and 25). By these 3 layers, we should
be able to fit all times of day with their different player numbers.
« Last Edit: 19-11-2015, 08:11:19 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline PapillonFH

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #3 on: 19-11-2015, 08:11:14 »
Actually the flag layout you describe is the 32 layer. So it is allowed to think in this direction.
Well yes it is big. Completely different to most fh2 maps. Almost open world lol.

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #4 on: 19-11-2015, 10:11:27 »
Thread moved and renamed by request.

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #5 on: 19-11-2015, 10:11:42 »
Thank you, Flippy.

Our CMP mappers will use this thread to explain the already contained
CMP maps that you can play right now. We may use it later on to
show you upcoming, not yet included CMP maps.

Such as: "Tarawa", Pr0z4c's map that will be first played in the upcoming
Forgotten Honor Campaign #18 which is due to start in January.

In addition: "Metz", a map that has been readied up for FHT tournament play and
extensively polished by Airshark. We did test "Metz" in the last FHT campaign #17
"Darkest Hour" and the players enjoyed it a lot for its intense close quarters action.
« Last Edit: 19-11-2015, 10:11:49 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #6 on: 19-11-2015, 15:11:10 »
One thing I noted while browsing the screenshots: You seem to use the African as well as the Normandy Sherman M4A1. These are functionally identical, but load different textures. Especially on a map with lots of different assets you need to try and limit texture load for performance. If you want to have graphical diversity for your Shermans, just use the different Normandy M4A1s, they are set up to all use the same textures.

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #7 on: 19-11-2015, 17:11:35 »
They make it look good but I have serious doubts about the quality. Last time I checked out the CMP, didn't like what I saw.

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #8 on: 19-11-2015, 18:11:42 »
Last time we saw one of your campaigns for PR, Korsakov, it ended before it started.
We did not like that either. But you saw none of us gloat about it.

You are not giving any constructive criticism, neither to the CMP
nor to Hawk's (very good) trailer for FH2.

All we hear from you is that you don't like any of it for ominous reasons.
Noone is forcing you to play it.
« Last Edit: 19-11-2015, 18:11:42 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline jan_kurator

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #9 on: 19-11-2015, 19:11:32 »
blah, blah, blah... Therefor the 64p layout should not be shrinked in any way.
so, only positive feedback is accepted? :) Matt only stated his OPINION, but I can actually agree with it. The gameplay area is way too big for public play, and I found it to be rather boring outside the city flags. Anyway, it's still one of the best maps of CMP.

Noone is forcing you to play it.
and I hope it will stay this way! ;)

Offline x4fun ODIUM

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #10 on: 19-11-2015, 19:11:43 »
[...]
so, only positive feedback is accepted? :) [...]
Nobody said that. But constructive criticism is useful and does not waste our time.

You should use the above way of reducing quotes, it is what they should teach you in
university/high school. Or I may start referring to all of your quotes by editing them into
"blahblahblah", even if they are proper arguments, Jan_Kurator.

Etna Line 64p is good because it is big and allows free movement.
If you want to shrink and push-code it into Nirvana,
there is the 32p layer to try that out.

Just because you don't agree does not mean that you are right. ;)
« Last Edit: 19-11-2015, 19:11:51 by x4fun ODIUM »
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #11 on: 19-11-2015, 20:11:28 »
Nevermind Korsakov, he doesnt like anything.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #12 on: 19-11-2015, 20:11:14 »
@x4fun ODIUM

I used "blah blah blah" on purpose, because that's what mappers intentions acutally mean if a regular player can't get them from playing his map. Why do you even counter an opinion with "As Papillon said..."? Can he translate what he said into a map properly, is a question here. We can see what he said in the original post, and forcing us to accept your opinion is not a good example of accepting the constructive criticism.

It's not your map anyway, let Papillon respond to feedback on his map if he's interested, fanboy  ;)
« Last Edit: 20-11-2015, 07:11:29 by jan_kurator »

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #13 on: 20-11-2015, 02:11:34 »
You want my specific reasons for being a critic of this? Fine, in those screenshots I already see bits of shrubery and trees all facing the same direction. Speaking of trees, there's no consideration for low-end users whatsoever given their density in certain areas.



How is that good? I don't need to play the map to know the lazy job done on those ground textures, the greatest eyesore on that front are the fields, there's so many rounded corners and arbitrary shapes with no consideration for actual agriculture. Unsteady hands visible everywhere! And that river? More like a dugout trench flooded with water than anything organic. And what, was the terrain of hills and ridges made with single brush sizes?

http://i.imgur.com/KTFwAlv.jpg
Just look at that! Half if not more of those anti-tank obstacles all face the same direction, which could be forgiven if they were en-masse and orderly but they're not.

And is it common to give consideration for the enemy? To my understanding trenches are made facing the frontline, unless it's a link to the rear there's no clear reason why stairs should be built on both sides.

http://i.imgur.com/0pYZUVI.jpg
Hah. I bet those cooking stations all have the same orientation right down to the decimal.

No I don't need to even walk around the map, the last time I did it was just dreadful. The screenshots tell most of what I wanted to know.

There's no appreciation for artistry at all in F|H maps, probably why they never play the vanilla FH2 maps is because they can't stand the sight of them.

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: CMP - The mappers present their maps
« Reply #14 on: 20-11-2015, 02:11:11 »
Well, that's the negative. The good is that the urban environments are usually good, rigid and man made. But you guys are just... lazy, when it comes to the more natural part of the maps.