Author Topic: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland  (Read 6078 times)

Offline Seth_Soldier

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German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« on: 28-08-2015, 22:08:40 »
It's not sure at 100%
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34090165

But if it's true, who knows what we will found !
Certainly money and arts but maybe secret weapons !

Offline siben

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #1 on: 28-08-2015, 22:08:21 »
Lets just wait for some pictures first, so far its just a very hyped rumour based on a ground radar scan.

Offline Dukat

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #2 on: 29-08-2015, 02:08:57 »
Thanks for opening this thread. That saves me from doing some initial work. The point about this whole story is that it doesn't sound right.

At first I wonder what makes them think that this is an armored train. By definition, this is an armored train:



Are ground penatrating radars so precisely, that you can identify barrels and guns on a train? I really wonder.

Evenmore, facists are a weird kind of people doing weird things. But at a closer look, even facists behave accordingly to certain patterns. An armored train got a precious fighting value, especially at the end of the war. There is no reason for the Nazis to dig guns in the ground. You either use them, or you leave them behind after having them disabled. There is nothing in between.

Whenever the Nazis hid art, gold or other values, they hid it in german or austrian heartland, maybe Czechia at worst. In all these cases, it was properly and manually stored, but not left on a train or carriage.


(Heilbronn salt mines)

The germans were always eager to hide everything, escpecially from the russians. No matter if gold, art or the bodys of their victims. Accordingly, you do not burry values in poland.

On top of that, you do not put cargo in a truck, drive the truck into a warehouse, exit the truck and warehouse and consider the cargo properly stored. The only case when you store a truck in a warehouse, is when the truck is the cargo itself.

Accordingly the train must be the valuable cargo itself. Unfortunately we didn't hear about the military situation in the area when the train was dug. But the only situation where you leave a train behind is when it is cut off, like being trapped in a pocket. You would only leave a functional train behind, when you are certain that you'll be returning within a short period of time, during a counter offensive or similar.

In the end I expect some exhibit only valuable in terms of the history of technology, like a train or armored train at best, partly rotten, as I expect rather wet and soggy conditions in that tube down there.

The tubes in the area look like this (when restored properly):

« Last Edit: 29-08-2015, 02:08:08 by Dukat »

I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline Alubat

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« Last Edit: 29-08-2015, 14:08:31 by Alubat »

Offline Krätzer

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #4 on: 29-08-2015, 15:08:14 »
The Greeks can dig it out, to pay the money back to the EU  ;D

Offline Hauggy

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #5 on: 29-08-2015, 20:08:44 »
Sounds stupid, I won't believe it until they dig it out (I mean the gold).
I kinda hope they find nothing but rusty steel just for the fun of it after all this crazy talk about legends of hidden treasures.

Offline siben

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #6 on: 29-08-2015, 21:08:11 »
If they find a simple empty armoured train then it would still be a great find you know.

Offline Hauggy

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #7 on: 30-08-2015, 00:08:17 »
I suppose but it's not like it was a 1000 years old train. :P

Offline Mudzin

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #8 on: 30-08-2015, 01:08:45 »
It's quite possible that this will contain gold (from Wroclaw banks) or pieces of art, maybe some secret documents, weapons who knows... Germans built quite big underground complex - "Riese" -with really high tunnels which were burried or flooded on purpose at the end of war. I visited one of those and they really are impressive. I wonder why nobody got enough funds to dig them out yet... And yes, many trains magically disappeared in those mountains at the end of war. However this train wasn't hidden in that region actually only in Walbrzych. However, I dont think it's armored train like you posted. If it was, Germans rather would blown it up. I think that Germans burried things which they wanted to dig them out eventually after the war. That region - Silesia - belonged to Germans since  centuries and they didn't expect that the region will belong to Poland after the war.  It was the safest place to hide pricesless things in their opinion in that time...

Edit: Ok,  I've read the article, so yeah - it might be armored train with gold :P

« Last Edit: 30-08-2015, 01:08:27 by Mudzin »

Offline Alubat

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #9 on: 30-08-2015, 01:08:58 »


Offline Mudzin

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #10 on: 30-08-2015, 02:08:26 »
As well as it can contain nuclear bomb parts, documentation...   8)

Offline Dukat

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #11 on: 30-08-2015, 03:08:44 »
Ok, the city of Wałbrzych is located in a rather forested area 65 kilometers southwest of Wrocław, only a few kilometers away from the czech border. The german name for Wałbrzych is Waldenburg. The name contains the word 'Wald' which means 'forest', indicating the forested conditions. The german name for the city of Wrocław is Breslau.




The city of Breslau became a german fortress in early 1945, was encircled by the red army and saw heavy fighting until the end of the war. Indicated by given maps, the germans drove a counteroffense to break free the city of Breslau from the southwest.


February 15th, 1945


March 1st, 1945

Accordingly, the area of Wałbrzych and Project Riese was a staging area and hideout for the german operation. It is very likely to find some military equipment there. However Project Riese is located 12 kilometers southeast of Wałbrzych. If a train was found in Wałbrzych, it is probably not within the Riese complex.


The next picture gives an idea of the railway network in the area of Wałbrzych today:




The bends of the railway line indicate the hilly shape of the landscape.




The city of Wałbrzych had a larger trainyard which can be found still today. The trainyard served as a marshalling yard for the various cargo coming from and going towards the Riese complex, which can be reached from here by single-track lines.




It appears that the germans drove several storage tracks into the hills around Wałbrzych, from 1944 onwards. They diverted from the various bends, having a reported length of up to 9 kilometers(?!). The train must be stored in one of those tunnels then, and it appears likely we're speaking of a real train and not just some mining trolley.

Finally, you'll find a very interesting story about the exact whereabout of the burried train here:

http://jeziorki.blogspot.de/2015/08/gold-rush-part-ii-search-intensifies.html

It is really worth the read. ;D


Edit:// I really like variant #2. If the Red Army came from North and East, while the railway lines were shattered at the railyard in the West, there was no way to escape the otherwise safe storage tunnel.

Edit:/// Now for real, how do you differ an armoured train from a couple of flatbeds with construction site equipment given on the picture of a radar image?

Edit://// This is where the deathbed confession comes in, when you're suppposed to believe in a gold train, right?
« Last Edit: 30-08-2015, 04:08:58 by Dukat »

I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline Erwin

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #12 on: 31-08-2015, 09:08:46 »
Poles can use that gold to go into space.  ;) :P
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Offline Dukat

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #13 on: 01-09-2015, 04:09:53 »
They're all crawling around that castle like mad.

The fact that the germans dug tunnels under the castle isn't that new. The castle was conceived to become residence and command centre for high military authorities of Wehrmacht and SS, probably administrating the Riese complex, or like others say, as an alternative headquarter for Adolf Hitler. A command center like this would be backed up with an air-raid-shelter, including a war room, telephone switchboards, quarters, kitchens and storage rooms for all kinds of precious goods. Thus the germans dug 2 kilometers of tunnels below the castle.

Wikipedia says that the germans planned to dig a railway line leading under the castle directly linking to the tunnel system, but never implemented it. But somehow nowadays everybody is speaking about the tunnel that led under the castle, as the topography and vegetation reveals the entrance pretty well.

Actually I cannot imagine that the germans were that stupid to plan a railway line leading directly into a headquarter, only waiting for some 'Inglorious Basterds' to roll in there guns blazing.

But I can imagine that the germans had a hard time bringing out the rubble when digging 2 kilometers of tunnels. If you think big like Nazis did, you don't make 1200 slave labour workers bring up the rubble via the staircase. You rather make them dig a tunnel leading outside. Think big! You connect the tunnels with the railway line at kilometer 65, using the so called 'secret switch' which probably wasn't that secret but rather temporary in existance. After you're done, you fill up the entrance with rubble again.


Picture of a random tunnel near Wałbrzych.

Now, the tunnels below the castle are about 50 meters under the ground, accordingly to an unfinished elevator installation. But some sources say, that the train is in a depth of 70 meters. Considering the slope between the proposed tunnel entrance at the foot of the hill and the castle on top, there is now way the gold train could be hidden in the section between the railway tunnel entrance and the tunnel system under the castle while being at a depth of 70 meters.

Which brings me closer to the conclusion that the whole kilomter 65 story has been made up to lurk the tourists and the press to the castle where souvenir traders make a buck with all sorts of militaria and stuff related to the nazi history of the castle.

Meanwhile some sources report the train to be only 90 meters long.

And the Daily Mail brings a up a heart breaking story: the man who knows the man who did the confession.*fanfare*

This story got everything: hard to swallow, too long to read, armed neo fascists and false evidence, like that family picture of people supposedly murdered by the Nazis at the end of the war when standing next to a 1952 Skoda. Funny sidenote: in this story the death-confessor did only see a tunnel entrance, but no gold train.

But it brings up a location (among others), that is reported by the Daily Telegraph as well: Kilometer 61. The Telegraph reports on top that the embankment next to kilometer 61 is the spot, where a fire broke out last night. So, this spot seems to be popular and hot among polish treasure hunters for many years.

I'm kinda glad W-wa Jeziorki gets to the same results in his blog, thus I can present you his picture:



If you look at the heightmap, you'll find a almost straight strip on an embankment with a length about 300 meters that is at a height of 390 meters while the railway line is at 320 meters.



A sealed tunnel here would make a train being burried 70 meters deep, indeed. And if you drill through to the other side, you'd achieve a straightening of the railway line, allowing for a higher speed on the section. Some of those OT architects where actually clever guys, don't underestimate.

The variant #2 proposed yesterday seems unlikely now. The hill above the tunnel got a strong slope. Its more than 200 meters above the level of the tunnel. Hard to work here with a radar, ain't it? At least it can't be 70 meters deep then.

But maybe this 3rd location is only derived from another urban legend and turns out to be a fake as well. We'll see. Tomorrow.
« Last Edit: 01-09-2015, 04:09:51 by Dukat »

I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline Oberst

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Re: German ww2 Train found hidden in Poland
« Reply #14 on: 01-09-2015, 10:09:38 »
Depending on the type of soil in the area 200 m should be no problem for a ground penetrating radar (GPR). But usually for most GPR long wavelength radiation is used, as this offers the good penetration of soil. But this limits the resolution. What you can say from a GPR measurement is: There is a big, large metal object possibly in a cavity in 70 m depts, but the resolution is by far not enough to resolve single gun barrels.