Author Topic: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?  (Read 8805 times)

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #45 on: 24-06-2014, 14:06:01 »
Wait, aren't the kit limits team-based, not squad based? Are you trying to leak some new info, jan?   ;)

I also agree that some way to move more pickup kits to the front would be nice, but I guess the only way to do it would be to adopt a PR style request system...
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Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #46 on: 24-06-2014, 14:06:26 »
Wait, aren't the kit limits team-based, not squad based? Are you trying to leak some new info, jan?   ;)

They are team-based, but slight changes have been made to this system in 2.46:
Quote
Upgrade for kit limiting
- "Seniority" (e.g., if there are 2 dead players and only 1 available kit, the player who selected the kit earlier is allowed to spawn with it). You loose seniority when you a) select another kit; b) switch teams; c) die with another kit.
- Large squads priority (you're allowed to select any limited kit disregarding the number of available kits and your seniority if you are a member of a large squad (5 or more players) and no one in your squad is running around with the same kit or selected it earlier).

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #47 on: 24-06-2014, 14:06:36 »
Ah, cool, time for me to read the changelog, I guess. :P
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Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #48 on: 24-06-2014, 14:06:48 »
Ah, cool, time for me to read the changelog, I guess. :P
Not sure is it in the trolllog changelog. I took it from internal forum, but since it's in game it's not a leak  ;)

Offline GeoPat

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #49 on: 24-06-2014, 19:06:58 »
I would like to see more squad participation in this mod.  Squad-based kit limits and more open maps would incentivize people to join squads.  At the very least, make it a server option so we can have some teamwork servers in addition to the current cat-herding servers.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #50 on: 24-06-2014, 20:06:47 »
^ The thing is, to make squads more appealing you need to provide perks that will encourage players to join them. At the same time, denying assets from people just because they are not in a squad can be seen as an attack on the player freedom and put off more people from playing.

The problem is that this engine is quite limited when it comes to providing means to changing squad play...

...Would it be possible to reward extra teamwork points for people in squads? A straight multiplier could work I guess...

Focusing on larger maps could work too, as people will join for the ease of getting back to action, but then again some people think large maps are boring...

The only perks a squad provides atm is a mobile spawn point (which isn't really always reliable, as it depends on the ability of the SL to stay alive, and luck, mostly) and VOIP (which is rarely used, and if it works, the quality often sucks).
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Offline Musti

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #51 on: 24-06-2014, 21:06:30 »
^ The thing is, to make squads more appealing you need to provide perks that will encourage players to join them
Playing in a squad does not equal teamwork, it just means you get bunch of green dots on your minimap and an additional spawnpoint.
At the same time, denying assets from people just because they are not in a squad can be seen as an attack on the player freedom and put off more people from playing.
Damn right it is, and it would only cause people to make squads just to get those assets, that would not only not help, but probably also hinder teamwork really (bunch of squads full of muppets that want shiny guns, and the person who actually wants to play in a squad can't make one...)

Also I like me lonewolfing, and I don't need anyone blabbering about something to me just so I can use a gun that I want/need.
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Offline GeoPat

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #52 on: 25-06-2014, 00:06:31 »
the difference of opinion between teamplayers and loanwhelps is why we need more options.  Right now the player community is comprised of 2 overlapping groups, pubby players and tournament players.  During current  FHT battle days the public server is only half populated(I wonder what shitfest it becomes).  The other tournment, WaW, has very few people who play pubby.  This gives you an idea of these 2 groups.  Tourney players are easily more numerous.  We should make it possible to have tourney style play on day-to-day public servers.

We can use the 128 map level to make more open versions of existing large maps(no push code, larger combat zones, etc) and tie things like squad-based kit limits and rally point system to the level.  We can call it "tournament-style level".  This gives servers another option to mix up playing styles, like some other mod with different gameplay styles.

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #53 on: 25-06-2014, 00:06:16 »
The problem of teamplay on pubby is that theres not many good squad leaders... 

Offline GeoPat

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #54 on: 25-06-2014, 01:06:03 »
The problem of teamplay on pubby is that theres not many good squad leaders...

But they do exist.  My idea is to get the teamplayers and good SLs back into actively playing pubby.

Offline Hockeywarrior

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #55 on: 25-06-2014, 06:06:46 »
I agree with many others here that 762 is a big part of the problem. They hold the reins to the only big server which means they have nearly all the responsibility in maintaining a good gaming experience ... except that it seems they couldn't give a shit about it.

Random server disconnects that often result in a 16 or 32 player map being started up after the crash (resulting in horrible spam that confuses and frustrates players), a seemingly-complete ignorance to listen to what people in the server want to play map-wise, infamously bad adminning that is notorious for kicking players who simply kill 762 members or for banning the wrong players, and a complete lack of understanding what maps to run at what times of day. Oh and don't even get me started on the lack of team swapping to keep stacking from happening (which results massive steamrolls of one unlucky team map after map). These are absolutely basic levels of incompetence.

Granted, it's not all 762's fault. One issue is the inherent difficulty of the game, and the jedi-like skills of those who play it religiously. Just to put this in context, I have been playing FH2 ever since release. Before that, I played FH1 since the 2nd year of its existence. I have all of this experience, this veterancy, and yet I sometimes find the game to be incredibly frustrating if I haven't played in a couple of months. This is exacerbated by my bad ping, since I'm playing in the US -- though this is nothing new and I've grown accustomed to loosing 70% of close quarters encounters. The game can feel incredibly unmerciful and scary -- especially if you're not in a good squad. And let's be honest: most of the time you're not in one unless you are one of the aforementioned jedi masters and happen to know everyone on the server.

SIDENOTE: Oh and a side note for veteran players out there including myself: you all can't be expected to play worse to make the game easier for others (herp), but jesus guys -- stop stacking the goddamn teams. It kills player morale (and player numbers) when one team steamrolls the other map after map because all of the FH2 faithful are stacking them. Nothing kills any sense of teamwork or sense of fairness when this happens ... and it often results in the sever emptying pretty damn fast. /SIDENOTE

All MP games involve the frustrations of new players getting owned by experienced ones, but it's made tougher in FH2 by the simple fact that this is a game that is so unique in its quirks -- the movement, gun handling, animations, slow pace of play, complex maps, vehicle handling quirks, glitchiness of the BF2 engine (plus the extra clunkiness created by 150+ ping), all combined with insta death that can come from any bush or window, combines for a potently frustrating experience for the initiated. Of course, a number of the things I mentioned in that list are "good" things -- they add to the fun of the game, but they also increase its learning curve.

I'm not placing blame here. It's inevitable that a game with a small, loyal player base is going to have a massive skill gap between its oldest and newest players. I'm simply pointing out a fact. That said, there are certainly things we can each do as veteran players to make FH2 a more welcoming and less frustrating experience. I'll list them in a later post, though I think you all are on the right track in coming up with some obvious ways.
« Last Edit: 25-06-2014, 10:06:03 by Hockeywarrior »

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Offline FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #56 on: 25-06-2014, 10:06:40 »
762 is not the problem here, without their server fh2 would have died off.    yes, some questionable admining.  the maps are on random....  server disconnects happen on every server.  higher ping for us westerners on their server.  learn to love the s-mine  ;D    start a squad and be part of the solution!

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #57 on: 25-06-2014, 15:06:23 »
I agree with many others here that 762 is a big part of the problem. They hold the reins to the only big server which means they have nearly all the responsibility in maintaining a good gaming experience ... except that it seems they couldn't give a shit about it.

Random server disconnects that often result in a 16 or 32 player map being started up after the crash (resulting in horrible spam that confuses and frustrates players), a seemingly-complete ignorance to listen to what people in the server want to play map-wise, infamously bad adminning that is notorious for kicking players who simply kill 762 members or for banning the wrong players, and a complete lack of understanding what maps to run at what times of day. Oh and don't even get me started on the lack of team swapping to keep stacking from happening (which results massive steamrolls of one unlucky team map after map). These are absolutely basic levels of incompetence.


Why is 762 a big part of the problem? Did it ever come to your mind that we are playing a ten year old game with not so hyper gfx and that you won't catch too man new people just with awesome gameplay.
That said, gameplay is the propably biggest part of the problem next to the age of the game. You die damn fast in this game, and that over and over again. I know only a few other games where it is like that, and they are not the top sellers. All those instakill games are niche games, because people just get too frustrated too fast and want to be able to autoheal in a corner and take bullet after bullet. You need to have a masochistic fetish to enjoy FH2, I will admit that, but I enjoy games that punish me for mistakes and tell me that I suck ;D

Besides that, 762 is not always perfect and never has been, but we atleast try to keep the server running and people are indeed coming back wich is not only a success of the server administration, but the dev team. If you want to get involved or voice your opinion, then please go to our forum as that's the right place: http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?23-Forgotten-Hope-2

For all your mentioned complaints: I take some of those points as an insult tbh or some kind of stupidity, expecialy after the discuission and posts before wich give alot of explainations why things are as they are. I will let you figure out, wich one. Good tip: If you don't like something, bring up a suggestion for improvement or don't use it at all or don't say anything. I always see people saying "this is bad bad, that is bad, everything is bad on 762", but none of those did it better or have an idea what their ideas have as consequences, because most of the time they are only thinking within limits of their microscopic horizon. That it works most of the time doesn't mean anything.

I don't know why all those threats turn into a 762 bitching fest? Is it really that bad? Are 762 really the root of all evil? I have the feeling that all those complaints about 762 won't bring us one bit further in how we can increase player numbers. Nobody brings a suggestion what could be done better or what the real problems are. You can't do much about the age of the game or the gameplay, same as you can't do much about team stacking. 2.45 showed what happens when you change the gameplay and we will also not switch off autoteam balance or dictate on wich side people join, nor will we mix up teams after every round to rip people out of squads that they created with their friends.  ::)

There could be better advertising from my POV, but someone has to do it. Good example: we still have the 2.45 download button on the mainpage. It is a small detail, but if I release something new, I need to advertise it. But then again, manpower is a big problem in the FH2 dev team, so I rather see them doing new stuff for eastern front instead of fixing that button. It's always a comromise, isn't it?

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #58 on: 25-06-2014, 15:06:19 »
There could be better advertising from my POV, but someone has to do it. Good example: we still have the 2.45 download button on the mainpage. It is a small detail, but if I release something new, I need to advertise it. But then again, manpower is a big problem in the FH2 dev team, so I rather see them doing new stuff for eastern front instead of fixing that button. It's always a comromise, isn't it?

Yeah, I've also noticed that button issue recently...

Offline Alubat

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Re: Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?
« Reply #59 on: 25-06-2014, 16:06:15 »
Maybe the Forgotten Hope Community Steam group needs a brush up!!
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fhcommunity

It has 421 members and mostly more than 100 is online ?? ( playing other games )
there is no action or anything going on!!.
NOT even 1 post in the discussion forum wtf ??
IF that community page looked more cool up to date + easier way of integrating FH into steam, more steamgamers might get attracted to play FH2.

BTW!!

Battlefield 2   - 50% on steam summersale

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24860/
« Last Edit: 25-06-2014, 17:06:17 by Alubat »