Author Topic: AA gun concentrations  (Read 1353 times)

Offline Martinlegend

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AA gun concentrations
« on: 24-05-2014, 22:05:50 »
I noticed that the aa guns are allway lone wolfs - and that's why thei are not a big danger for planes who are targeting them

maybe you could bring up 2 or 3 aa gun for covering a area  - just an area and not the whole map...

I attached a picture of an aa battery in Germany in 1945 (and in this small area are up to 8  aa guns)
this would be to difficult for the fh2 ok but like I said 2 or 3 in one area or around one town would be good

or maybe a map were the allies only have planes and the germans have to man all their aa guns to cover their own movements?
 to make it moe difficult for the allied planes...



Offline VonMudra

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #1 on: 24-05-2014, 23:05:19 »
And if they put that in, do you really think anyone would be able to get a plane up ever again?

Maps are balancing acts, slapping a full battery of 20mms on a map would make it impossible for any air units on the map to do a thing.

Offline Musti

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #2 on: 24-05-2014, 23:05:23 »
And if they put that in, do you really think anyone would be able to get a plane up ever again?

Maps are balancing acts, slapping a full battery of 20mms on a map would make it impossible for any air units on the map to do a thing.
Yeah, what allows Fh2 to be realistic and historically accurate (although we did lose some realism lately, unfortunately) is that maps tend to balance out the differences in equipment etc.

BUT I would like to see some proper AA "emplacements" with 2 guns or something (maybe on bigger maps)
because single AA guns tend to be raped by skilled pilots who remember where all of them are.
Maybe not on any current maps but on some newer ones, yeah.
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Offline LuckyOne

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #3 on: 25-05-2014, 00:05:25 »
^ To be honest I'd rather have them spawn on randomized locations (I'm pretty sure some of the static MGs are already set up this way!) than having the number of the guns increased, the bigger maps tend to lag already with the amount of objects on them... Although I must admit that those AA batteries with simultaneous control of 4 guns that could be pulled off in FH1 were fun...
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Martinlegend

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #4 on: 25-05-2014, 00:05:34 »
And if they put that in, do you really think anyone would be able to get a plane up ever again?

Maps are balancing acts, slapping a full battery of 20mms on a map would make it impossible for any air units on the map to do a thing.

you have to thing longer about that
the ground troops would be more important to take the aa guns out
(maybe as a flag point to make the way free for the planes)

and after that the planes can move free - until the defenders take the "aa flag" back so the defence would be also important

and I didn't said that the whole map was covered by aa fire only parts of it

« Last Edit: 25-05-2014, 00:05:35 by Martinlegend »

Offline djinn

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #5 on: 25-05-2014, 13:05:48 »
For main bases, i agree. There needs to be deterrence. A map like Gazala for instance. german base already has 2 88s and a flak gun but allied base needs more.

For center of maps, I would suggest this done with caution and only when AA played such a pivotal role.

Dont forget the stone paper scissors of it all.

Infantry cant just march to the enemy base and disable its AA. Planes kill static guns, which kill tanks, which kill infantry which kill AA, which kill planes.

You need to account for the other elements in that relationship.

And 2 or 3 airplanes coordinated should still be able to take out enemy AA, even at the main base, especially since arty wont get that far

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #6 on: 25-05-2014, 13:05:13 »
Note that the picture you posted is of a static aa battery for use against strategic bombing, not a battery for tactical combat like we have in FH2. The FH2 guns pretty much are the divisional aa assets being hastily dug in.

Offline Martinlegend

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #7 on: 25-05-2014, 14:05:07 »
yes i know but its just an example

this Stone scissor paper Thing is not the right way i think

in the case of the aa guns like the 88 it could be also use against aa or ground troops - which would  be impossible if the Emplacement doesnt give them the chance to fight against air Targets
- like a Camouflage net - would make it impossible to fire on air Targets because you cant aim correctly trough it - or more simply by giving them no AT/HE or AA grenades
« Last Edit: 25-05-2014, 14:05:14 by Martinlegend »

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #8 on: 25-05-2014, 15:05:15 »
Note that the picture you posted is of a static aa battery for use against strategic bombing, not a battery for tactical combat like we have in FH2. The FH2 guns pretty much are the divisional aa assets being hastily dug in.

Could you provide pics/examples of tactical AA battery emplacements and the strategical AA?
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Martinlegend

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #9 on: 25-05-2014, 15:05:06 »
here is an example of an aa battery with 3 88s on the italian front

Offline djinn

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #10 on: 25-05-2014, 22:05:10 »
Stone paper scissors is just incidental to real life. 88 is indeed a equal opportunity killer, but it is weak, or rather handicapped against infantry. So there's your paper to the ultimate stone.


Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #11 on: 25-05-2014, 22:05:35 »
Planes are also handicapped against infantry. Those scissors can only cut big pieces of paper, infantry are already shreds.
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Martinlegend

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #12 on: 26-05-2014, 03:05:47 »
but infantry cant kill planes without aa guns
and a plane can also upload his bombs into a trench

the efectivity of infantry is allway bound by the battlefield - a infantrymen on openfield is a easy target
but in urban Areas they can take out every tanks that pass through it or stand nearby
and they are also covered against air attacks

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #13 on: 26-05-2014, 03:05:58 »
... So what?

Also, note that almost every gun or tank was rarely used alone irl, but in FH2 we don't have howitzer batteries or platoons of 5 tanks of the same type. The whole game is scaled, so posting pictures of real life aa installations is basically a waste of time.

Offline djinn

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Re: AA gun concentrations
« Reply #14 on: 26-05-2014, 09:05:19 »
To put it simpler,

Forgotten Hope operates at a tactical level. What you describe with artillery batteries is strategic.

We are looking at single battles, not a larger battle space. Or you'd likely see Regiment artillery guns before you see AA batteries.

Regiment artillery is currently commander arty, so you can get the scope of our world from that.