Author Topic: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2  (Read 2603 times)

Offline Matthew_Baker

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There have been a lot of suggestions in the past, and some recent threads that have started out as/eventually turned into a discussion about changing the commander role in FH2. The reason I made a new thread on this topic is not for it to be so much of a suggestion, but more of a discourse about the commander in FH2. It seems to be at the heart of a lot of suggestions and discussions on FH2s gameplay and imo resolving the issue of the commander will not only help FH2 but other gameplay issues that might arise from it.

This thread is about outlining a discussion amongst the devs and forum users as to what to do with the commander role; more specifically how can we make the role of the commander a more fun and useful position in FH2? In it I’ll outline how I think we should question the commander role while also giving my own ideas for the commander in FH2. What I’m looking for is an honest discussion about how people feel the commander should be played. Outline your own ideas as I’m doing here, create your own huge walls of text that can be read and assessed by people, or build upon someone else’s ideas so we can get properly formulated suggestions. All I ask is that we keep it simple. Let’s suggest things we know are possible or are at least within the realm of possibility of what can be done by this engine. (obviously no “canz we h@ve commander NUKZ!?!” suggestions) What I hope is that this discussion will result in ideas being jogged loose and built upon so in the end we have a well defined gameplay design for the commander in FH2, one that the devs can hopefully implement in the future; or not.

However, before we can discuss how to make the commander better, we first have to ask if it’s worth it. Do we keep the commander and expand on it (improve it, make it more important/want to be played); or would it help FH2s game design better to simply remove the commander altogether and put logistics/ support in the hands of the players (kind of as we have now)?
 
(Imo, I’d like to see the commander position kept in FH2 and made better, so what I discuss from here on is assuming the Commander position to be in FH2.)

Right now I would say the commander is dead skin, just leftover from FH2s inception. It had a lot of potential, but pumping out models and other gameplay changes eventually got in the way and its game design fell to the wayside. I think the commander has a lot of potential currently, and a lot of great gameplay dynamics can arise from a well designed commander position. 

FH basic training command and tactics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvqChuQX8U&list=PL0059528BCA568F9B&index=7

What should the role of the commander be defined as?

“Commander should coordinate the team and give guidance to the individual squads, monitors the overall situation and decides the strategy.” That’s a quote from PR’s guide about what their commander role is.
PR Guide and overview on how their commander is set up: http://www.realitymod.com/manual/pr_manual.pdf

Imo the PR commander is a good place to start, it’s well developed and works well for THEIR gameplay. Seeing what it does right and wrong can help us make FH2s commander position even better.

The commander should realistically coordinate the team and decide strategy but the world of FH is very different from the world of PR. People don’t constantly communicate with one another over VOIP or Mumble, people in FH want to do their own thing, that’s what FH is geared toward. Give the players fun assets to use, and if used correctly, they can give their team the upper hand to win the battle.
Because of this I see the commander almost as another class, a class with very powerful assets that have a very direct and immediate influence on the battle. This class’ assets should be fun to use and should vary by map and team (as every other class does)

The commander should be a supporter on the battlefield, he should be able to take requests from players and use them while also being able to make decisions on his own. The commander shouldn’t be so influential that he’s overpowered on the battlefield; being able to annihilate the enemy team with one fail swoop, and he also shouldn’t be so influential in case he’s misused on the battlefield; for example, if nobody goes commander that round it won’t make the game unplayable for the other 32 players. This also means that if someone who is a smacktard goes commander he can be easily removed by his teammates so as not to hinder the gameplay of the other 31 people on the team.

The perfect commander, what we’re looking to discuss and form here, is a role on the battlefield that if used properly can give his team an upperhand in the battle. Through hard work and practiced use of his tools he can shift the battle in favor of his team and ultimately win them the round.

Currently this is possible in FH2 to SOME extent (this is why the commander has so much potential imo). Right now well timed and well placed artillery barrages (one of the commander’s most powerful assets) can demolish an enemy and help his team move onto and take a flag that was being stalemated for the whole round. To some extent supplies, dropped on vehicle locations, can be used to give those tanks and heavy assets the added ‘specialized’ rounds to give them the upperhand in a tank fight, or the ability to sit and repair/heal themselves without having to get out, meaning they can engage the enemy while regenerating their health (not very realistic but not the point).

One of the biggest complaints about the commander now is how boring it is to play. I’d like to see some discussion as to WHY exactly this is but I feel the biggest reasons are;

a) not enough to do, the commander only really has arty and supplies at his disposal right now (2 buttons w/ a lot of time in between use = not that much fun imo) The commander should always have something to do, or at least always have something fun to play with.

b) no ability to see his effects on the battle (also not being able to see the battle.) Imo the core of our reasoning for playing BF2 is the idea that we get to see these battles being played out while also seeing that we’re having an effect on them. Sitting in a stationary place and clicking buttons, hoping they do something is a big turn off for people imo.

At its heart I see the commander as a support role; and right now many of the support roles in FH2 don’t have a lot to do but they’re still A LOT of fun to play. People play as arty gunners where you sit in a seat and line up numbers, or as a recon plane where you fly around with nothing to shoot at. But these roles also have you actively DOING something and have you actively SEEING how you’re affecting the battle. In arty I have a ‘God’s eye view’ where I can see that my rounds are landing and killing people. In the recon plane I’m flying, flying is inherently a fun activity for most people, and you can see all the people you’re spotting on the ground with the ‘UAV radar,’ (not realistic but it’s a very useful tool from a gameplay standpoint).

These support roles are what I feel the Commander should be modeled after. Give him the ability to do MANY things, and give him the ability to see the impact of those things on the battlefield.

Imo the commander has 3 main assets; arty/supply/recon (and he should utilize all of these in conjunction with coordinating his team to get their full potential)

Quote
Right now in FH2 there are a lot of player controlled support roles: player controlled arty, recon planes, ammo trucks etc… I want to try and keep the idea of player controlled support roles in CONJUNCTION with commander support roles. Player controlled support roles are fun and loved by many and I don’t want to see them go. However, it might prove to be impossible to see them work with commander support roles and one or the other might ultimately have to be taken out, which is why I raised the question of if it’s worth it to keep the commander in.

Arty (This includes big arty tasks, softening up enemy positions with very indirect fire)
Variations have been suggested a million times, and many of them have some great ideas that could stand alone and make the commander position fun to play.

Commander assets air and arty suggestion: http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=13080.msg174437#msg174437

New Commander options suggestion: http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=16207.0

I feel like the real question here is what the hell is the difference or significant impact of having 2 types of arty systems? Right now we have player controlled arty which is fun and LOVED by many people. It’s well designed so as to take some skill to use well. It also incorporates teamwork into FH on a scale I’ve never seen before. A good spotter coupled with a good gunner can ruin my day defending a flag. This is a great thing and is why I think player controlled arty should be kept in FH2 and not sacrificed for the commander. Right now the only advantage is that Commander arty is used to soften up an objective, which I think is great. Let loose a barrage on a flag and many of its defenses (AT guns, machine guns, people) are out of commission and disorganized for a minute or two, allowing your team to advance. But how do we define the role of commander arty and how is it different from player controlled arty?

I guess my one suggestion would be to put ONLY the big guns in the hands of the commander. 25 pders, leFH 18s, 105 Howitzers etc.. giving ONLY the mortars and mobile arty to the player controlled arty. You want a big barrage to soften up a target? Call on the big batteries, but they’re only available every few minutes or so as the commander arty is now. And if you want to get rid of that pesky camping tank or that one 6pder someone moved to the flank that’s eating up your PzerIIIs? call it out with binoculars and have the mortar crew put some accurate fire on its location instead of wasting a ‘one time’ barrage. 

Supply (incorporates big supply tasks, reinforcing a whole squad or team. Leaving things like driving ammo trucks to tanks to be reserved for the player)
Supply asset is a tricky one imo. Right now supply doesn’t do much of anything in FH2. As an infantryman I’ve only once or twice had to go and find more clips for my rifle after using them all up. The only times I’ve EVER seeked out an ammo box (or wish I had one) is:

1) I need more special shells for my tank, or more HE ‘cause I’ve been spamming it into the enemy flag for 10 min and I’m fresh out

2) I just used up all of my PIATs/Zooks/satchels/AT weapons etc… and I need some more.

Overall, it’s not a very common thing to need supply drops every few min on an FH2 battlefield.
So how can this become an asset that is as important as or almost as important as arty on the battlefield?
I’m thinking in terms of bigger things. Maybe the commander can choose to give people reinforcements of the sort. Spawn crew served weapons (mortars, deployed guns etc..) or even go so far as to spawn certain vehicles in certain situations with limits. Can even go so far as to create limited spawn points.
My one idea would be making the command vehicle itself a spawn point. This supply idea can be built upon and I’ll elaborate on it more later. 

Recon (i.e. something bigger than just spotting people with binos for the team)
Recon is imo already a very fun thing in FH. I remember flying the scout plane around on Lebiesy and seeing the impact it had on my team. I’m not sure if it was just an incompetent Brit team on the other side but I like to think it was the fact that my guys had a pretty much constant view of the enemy’s location on their map. They we’re never surprised to see 10 guys rushing in from their right because I uncovered those guys sneaking on their flank 2 minutes beforehand. In the end it was a resounding victory.

This example shows the power of the recon plane and how it can be a huge asset for the commander that can affect the battle in a significant way. I would propose giving the “UAV” ability back to the commander in the form of a recon plane (which has been suggested before) in general the recon plane would fly in a circle like the UAV over an area of the commanders choosing and have the ‘radar’ show enemy positions on the minimap for the team to see. This would be like the arty in that it could only be used every so often. One immediate problem that I heard was that apparently only ONE model can be used for the recon plane for both teams, meaning a team specific recon planes would be out and would break immersion. I guess the easiest work around to this would be to just make the ‘UAV’ not visible to people on the ground, but the commander still gets the ‘radar’ abilities.

This also raises the same question that the arty did in that we already have player controlled recon planes. How do we differentiate these recon planes from the commanders recon abilities? My suggestion would be to take away the recon plane from the player and just give it to the commander instead. That would mean that you as a player couldn’t just hop into a recon plane whenever you felt but instead would have to go as a commander to do so. This has the disadvantage of taking it away from people who like to recon for their team every few rounds whenever they feel like it. But I think it gives the advantage of giving players more incentive to play as the commander, which is lacking almost completely right now. Now even if players just want to go commander and recon they’re still helping the team out but can also do more with arty and supplies at their disposal as well.

Another idea would be to give the commander the ability to view the recon plane. As in, if the commander is in his seat he can click to view the ‘underneath’ view of the recon plane even if someone else is flying it. He can have the ability to spot his own arty from there and use it to direct troops better.
Or maybe, is there some possible work around where the commander could ‘call in’ a recon plane? Use his binos to spot the place he wants to recon and have something fly in off map that you could man. I’m thinking kind of like the bomber kit in FH1 where you’d call it in and the plane would fly a set path, you’d then man the plane and drop bombs manually. Iirc I heard it wasn’t exactly possible in BF2 tho.
This area of the commander assets can be expanded upon heavily.

In terms of making the commander a fun role to play in, aside from the assets, the commander should have the ability to move around. He should be able to be with his team only slightly behind the front lines and see his work take effect. You can see in this PR video how dbzao is at the forefront of the attack, watching as his team takes objectives and helps to build/ communicate with them.

Commanding in PR, dbzao video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIyeSSWL8pI

This aspect of being able to move around and be with the team alone makes the commander so much more fun to play. He has the choice to sit in the safety of his chair at the base but if he wants to venture out he can do so with the command trucks that are already in game. They work like they do now, the commander can command from inside his tent or inside the command truck and those are the only two places he has access to his map.

I also believe it could be a good idea to make the commanders truck a spawn point for the whole team. The only other spawn point aside from forward spawns at flags and SL spawns. This has the advantage of; if the commander isn’t using it at all or improperly it doesn’t affect gameplay. BUT if the commander uses it correctly and with some skill, it can become an enemy team’s nightmare, giving them another separate objective to take out. Essentially it’s like the spawnable Halftrack on Cobra (don’t know if it has been removed or not) but instead of having some smaktard drive it around (which has no real negative effect on gameplay currently) it will be a commander. (and again even if the commander is himself a smacktard it doesn’t effect gameplay and at least you have the ability to never let him drive it again by starting a mutiny against him.) This is under the assumption that the commander vehicle is locked to only the commander (possible? you could make it locked to a kit and have the commander kit only able to enter it, commander kit being only different from SL kit in terms of coding.)

The way I’m thinking of it’s ideal use now is on a map like El Alamein, the Brits are having a hard time capping the Ridge, anyone trying to move across the open desert is getting shelled by German tanks and no SL are smart enough or good enough to go and create a spawn point for their team at the base of the hill. So the commander steps in and decides this flag is the team’s number one priority and needs to be taken. He now, being the only one that can drive the command car, has to actively fight his way to a good spawn location where he can sit and defend his car as his team now has one new cohesive spawn point with which to attack this flag. It works for FH gameplay because it gives the team the OPTION of whether to spawn there or not, the commander isn’t useless by just giving his team a move marker and having no one follow it; he’s creating a new asset for his team that he deems useful and hoping his team will utilize that asset to their advantage. It’s a lot like a SL sitting in a building and hiding for his squad to rush in and overwhelm the flag, only it’s like a SL for the whole team which is what the commander should be (in a sense.) Not all maps can possibly have this commander spawn vehicle asset for the commander (inf maps) which is why I think he should also get different types of “supply” abilities as well, for those maps. I believe it’s possible to give commander certain things on certain maps; just like having mortars for arty on one map but large arty on another.

Imo the commander should be thought about on a map by map basis to better see what assets a team could use on those maps and how to balance them between both teams while keeping with historical accuracy.

I’d love to know the community’s feel about the commander in FH2. If you agree or disagree with me; if you think it’s stupid to try and fix the commander or not; if you think the commander is awesome as is and doesn’t need any changing. I’d also love to see some more suggestions. How should the commander’s assets work? What would make YOU want to play commander? I hope this thread can start a good discussion; maybe outline a plan to make the commander something as fun as mortars or riflemen in FH2. Or, after some discussion, realize that the commander is useless in FH2 and have the devs remove it completely so as not to confuse new players and keep the mod ‘polished.’ 

Other command suggestion: http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=11866.0

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #1 on: 29-09-2013, 06:09:55 »
Honestly, the problems with the commander position is the fact that nobody gives a fuck about the guy on the team with the gold name yelling orders every which way, aside from tournament players and such. Granted, added functionality would be great, but the main problem is that public players just don't give a shit about squads and orders.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #2 on: 29-09-2013, 08:09:33 »
Well that's the thing, it's pretty obvious that pubby players aren't going to want or care about following orders from the commander. That's why, if you decide to make the commander worthwhile in FH2, you have to give him

1. Fun assets to play with

2. The ability to affect the battle in other ways rather than giving orders that won't be followed.

What I'm trying to outline is a commander position that's designed in such a way where it doesn't matter if the team wants to follow orders or not. The commander can directly effect the battle with the assets he's given and whether or not the team chooses to capitalize on that doesn't affect how much fun the commander position is having.

Ideally the commander can always be having fun with his assets, and if the team chooses to work WITH him, they become a more powerful team because of it.

Offline Turkish007

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #3 on: 29-09-2013, 08:09:01 »
I'd give the commander a vehicle drop option only on maps with paratroopers like on Crete, it could be very fun to aid your team not with just supplies and arty, but also some light skinned vehicles for the soldiers who need immediate transport.

Only one thing: was the tech of dropping vehicles into the battle discovered during WW2?

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #4 on: 29-09-2013, 09:09:29 »
I started reading your post Matt & about half way through, i had fallen asleep.....



 ...while sleeping, i had a dream that FH2 had released a news update, The Eastern Front patch & that Lightning called a "DEVS ONLY" meeting to address the many issues regarding "The Commander Position"



 Then i woke up.....

 :P



Offline Lightning

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #5 on: 29-09-2013, 11:09:56 »
...while sleeping, i had a dream that [...] Lightning called a "DEVS ONLY" meeting to address the many issues regarding "The Commander Position"
I've done that actually. Multiple times. I even looked up one of the threads (from August 2011).

The problem (back then) was that most of the developers would like to have some sort of commander, but no one has a good idea of what is possible or even what is wanted from the commander. A commander should be well integrated into the team, because right now he is more or less completely disconnected from it. Anyway, without any sort of direction for what is wanted or possible, no one spent any effort on it and I would be surprised if that would be any different today, with less than a third of the developers that were active back in those days.

As to removing it, that's a lot of work too.

Offline Slayer

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #6 on: 29-09-2013, 15:09:19 »
I really like the suggestions of Matthew Baker, but the commander is something for the bigger maps (the more scaled ones) imo. On an infantry map like Tunis or Anctoville the commander cannot do much good, and that's good too: those fights aren't fights depicting entire armies clashing. They are more on the batallion or even company level, so no commander needed.

Realistically speaking, I think the commander is something the devs are only gonna work on when
- all/most current bugs are fixed
- eastern front is released
and maybe even then it might be a long shot.

But, that doesn't mean suggestions can't be made and I have read all other commander threads before and this one of the better ones, maybe even the best one. It sums up many possibilities to make the commander more interesting, so gj, MB!

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #7 on: 29-09-2013, 18:09:58 »
One single thing that would make commander immensely more useful is if he had the ability to put (and remove) permanent markers for enemy troops as seen in PR. It would also add an incentive for SL communication with the commander as he would be the only guy able to constantly update enemy positions on the map.

The thing with the airplane kinda already exists, as the commander can already command from the second position of the scoutplane (this hasn't been removed, right?), the problem is it's hard to find someone to fly the plane (commander adding markers could help that too, as there would be an incentive to help him with his work).

One other (simple) fix that would make the supply aspect more useful would be adding suppression for all weapons in the game, because frankly, the single reason why you never run out of ammo currently is because there's absolutely no incentive to shoot if you can't actually hit the enemy. In fact shooting at an unseen enemy actually increases your chances of dying as you will run out of ammo, he'll pop out and zap you with perfect accuracy, even on long ranges.

The "heavy arty" idea sounds like it could have some potential but some maps would need rebalancing then.

As already discussed, vehicle drops for certain maps (like Crete) would add some flavour to the commander also.

One other thing, maybe the commander could be able to deploy some kind of "team wide" rally with his truck, instead of trying to hide the whole truck from enemy sight (could be very hard on some maps). Or have some kind of "camouflaged" mode (although I'm quite sure that's impossible to do).

Separating a smoke barrage from regular arty barrage (if possible) could also help the commander and make his job less boring.
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #8 on: 29-09-2013, 19:09:08 »
Commander radio in the second seat still works. Come to think of it, I have NEVER flown in the second seat.

Offline 0utlaw

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #9 on: 29-09-2013, 20:09:10 »
One single thing that would make commander immensely more useful is if he had the ability to put (and remove) permanent markers for enemy troops as seen in PR. It would also add an incentive for SL communication with the commander as he would be the only guy able to constantly update enemy positions on the map.

^This but while also removing the enemy completely from the minimap for all friendlies to see. Spotting the enemy movements on the minimap has always been a lame addition to the bf series.

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #10 on: 30-09-2013, 00:09:48 »
I started reading your post Matt & about half way through, i had fallen asleep.

Yea it's a bit of a wall. ;D I wanted to make sure I covered most of the aspects.

The problem (back then) was that most of the developers would like to have some sort of commander, but no one has a good idea of what is possible or even what is wanted from the commander.

Well that's more or less what I wanted this to be, a discussion about what people want out of the commander position. Hopefully the devs can get in on it and give there own ideas, and if someone comes up with a good medium it could spark a dev to do something about it.

One other thing, maybe the commander could be able to deploy some kind of "team wide" rally with his truck, instead of trying to hide the whole truck from enemy sight (could be very hard on some maps).

I like that idea a lot. I've thought about it a bit to elaborate more on the idea of the commander's supply function. I like the idea of the commander being removed from the battle but being able to do something very useful for his team, and I see him a lot like a 'teamwide Squad Leader.' Currently a useful squad leader in FH sits and 'hides' (unforutnately imo) and lets his team spawn on him to overwhelm the flag. I'd like to see the commander do this in a way.

The commander armored car idea only really works well for large maps like cobra/totalize/el al etc... but on inf based maps pdh/tunis/girarabub the commander could go into battle himself and place a rally (much like the rallys in Forgotten Honor) for the whole team. This could stick around for a minute or two (and be able to be destroyed by the enemy team) and after it disappears hes got a 'reload' time limit before he can place another one.

Ideally the commander 'spawn point asset' wouldn't be something that the commander just sets and forgets about. If it's an APC or a radio he still needs to use it as his 'commander seat' the place that he operates from and drops arty from etc. so it'd be something that once he 'set's it up' he wants to occupy it and defend it. It's not something you can just drop into the flagzone with and forget about. Ideally its an asset that is strategically placed in a good position to assault the enemy flag from while also making sure its in a place that's relatively safe from enemy fire. In my head I'd liken it a lot to an FOB in PR.

I think giving the commander the ability to go into battle and not exactly fight, but maneuver and set strategic spawn points for his team to win the battle would be a HUGE aspect of making the commander a position that people WANT to play, a position that's fun for people.

Commander radio in the second seat still works. Come to think of it, I have NEVER flown in the second seat.

tbh I'm always a little afraid to fly or drive as a commander because of the "no fighting commander rule" on 762 servers. Idk what they consider 'fighting' so I just avoid it and sit in my chair :P I think the rule started because of people 'stat padding' as commander but Ideally I'd like to see that rule removed if the commander position is developed nicely.
« Last Edit: 30-09-2013, 00:09:45 by Matthew_Baker »

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #11 on: 30-09-2013, 01:09:09 »
Very simple idea which would improve commander role but I'm not sure if possible codding wise would be giving double, triple or more score points for better effect for flag capture and defend if it was commander order (big enough to make it more important than simple fragging). Even "move" orders should be awarded with some kind of teamplay score, like 1 extra point to whole squad if they move to indicated position or something (but not too much to avoid abusive behaviour of easy scoring). That would encourage ppl to actually listen to commander.

Also, I suggested it before somwhere here or on internal forum. Making all commander orders for all squads visible for Squad Leaders would improve gameplay a lot as SLs will be able to see what other squads are about to do and cooporate better. Just give squad number near order icon (small number like near SL icon when in vehicle) to make it clear which order is whose.

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #12 on: 30-09-2013, 01:09:37 »
tbh I'm always a little afraid to fly or drive as a commander because of the "no fighting commander rule" on 762 servers. Idk what they consider 'fighting' so I just avoid it and sit in my chair :P I think the rule started because of people 'stat padding' as commander but Ideally I'd like to see that rule removed if the commander position is developed nicely.

I think they mean fighting over the position of commander, not actual combat since I've never been charged for it when killing my own team mates with a pistol.

Very simple idea which would improve commander role but I'm not sure if possible codding wise would be giving double, triple or more score points for better effect for flag capture and defend if it was commander order (big enough to make it more important than simple fragging). Even "move" orders should be awarded with some kind of teamplay score, like 1 extra point to whole squad if they move to indicated position or something (but not too much to avoid abusive behaviour of easy scoring). That would encourage ppl to actually listen to commander.

Also, I suggested it before somwhere here or on internal forum. Making all commander orders for all squads visible for Squad Leaders would improve gameplay a lot as SLs will be able to see what other squads are about to do and cooporate better. Just give squad number near order icon (small number like near SL icon when in vehicle) to make it clear which order is whose.

Two great ideas, I'd love to see that added!

Offline Matthew_Baker

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #13 on: 30-09-2013, 01:09:01 »
I think they mean fighting over the position of commander, not actual combat since I've never been charged for it when killing my own team mates with a pistol.

I feel like I've seen admins reprimand commanders for trying to cap flags and stuff. But if that's what the rule actually means then I'm gonna try out the Command vehicles a lot more ;)

Very simple idea which would improve commander role but I'm not sure if possible codding wise would be giving double, triple or more score points for better effect for flag capture and defend if it was commander order (big enough to make it more important than simple fragging). Even "move" orders should be awarded with some kind of teamplay score, like 1 extra point to whole squad if they move to indicated position or something (but not too much to avoid abusive behaviour of easy scoring). That would encourage ppl to actually listen to commander.

I like this idea a lot as a way of getting pubby players to follow orders. The commander position would def be a bit more fun if I knew that people had some incentive to follow my plans. The problem is I'm not sure if it's possible to code. When you give markers as a commander or SL you're just placing a marker in space, it doesn't necessarily 'lock' to the flag or objective that you're putting an attack marker on so the scoring system would have no way of multiplying points for capping a flag that it doesn't know the commander is designating.

Unless the idea would be to double points if you're within a certain radius of a marker. i.e. if you get a kill within 20m of the move marker it counts for 2 points instead of 1 (same with flag cap etc..), and it could maybe be tripled for markers given by the commander.

Imo the whole scoring system needs a bit of a rework but that's for another discussion :P

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Also, I suggested it before somwhere here or on internal forum. Making all commander orders for all squads visible for Squad Leaders would improve gameplay a lot as SLs will be able to see what other squads are about to do and cooporate better. Just give squad number near order icon (small number like near SL icon when in vehicle) to make it clear which order is whose.

You mean like being able to see what markers other SLs are marking even if there's no commander? As in SL1 puts an attack marker on a flag and me in Squad 3 can see that attack marker?
I like that idea too. I've ALWAYS wanted to know what other squads were doing so I could plan accordingly. When I'm SL I just have to guess right now :-\ I see Squad 4 moving north so I'm assuming they're attacking a flag even if they're not.

This would be nice as a general gameplay advancement, and would work very well if the commander were to be removed completely. It would allow squads to coordinate better even without a higher leader. 

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Discussing a Design Plan for the Commander Position in FH2
« Reply #14 on: 30-09-2013, 02:09:48 »
This would be nice as a general gameplay advancement, and would work very well if the commander were to be removed completely. It would allow squads to coordinate better even without a higher leader.
It would just improve between squad coordination no matter if they will be commander orders or not but preferably I would like to make visible commander orders only to make it clear what is his plan for the battle. I'm either not sure is my first idea possible codding wise as I said, hopefully someone competent will comment on that :P