Author Topic: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.  (Read 10840 times)

Offline Damaso

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #30 on: 03-01-2014, 15:01:41 »
Being a SL takes allot of practice & your not always going to win.

Here are a few other tips:

Listen to your squads suggestions & improvise tactics accordingly

Flanking is your best friend.  Whenever i decide on a flag to attack, 98% of the time i will NOT take a direct approach

Having your squad go M.O.B.I.L.E. is a HUGE advantage

Link up with another squad for LARGER attacks



Basically all of djinn points in the 1st post and a dash here and there of other tips in this thread needs to be
put together in a FH2 Squad Leaders Guide or something & E-mailed to all the community.....

..... wonder if teamwork on the servers would go through the roof?


 8)


I can take care of the first 3 types... but the last one i dont know because:

1st - Its dificult to keep constant contact with another squad so the cordination could be better (and the best way to do it is to SPEAK and not TYPE with them... but as you see, voip isnt enabled for inter-squad speaking i guess... only mumble - but it gives a lot of lag)

2nd - Lets imagine you can actually speak with other squad, and then you find out than their squad is totaly anarchist... what are you suposed to do wen you are (sometimes) the only real teamworking squad in the team? (by that i mean having the entire squad with you and not making their own wars, so if you tell them to atack they will spawn on you, atack, ect.. and we dont see many squads behave like that)

I would really like to make an 20 players atack with 2 teamworking squads... but its really dificult to get the another squad ready  :-\

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #31 on: 03-01-2014, 15:01:52 »
Link up with another squad for LARGER attacks

 This only means if you see another squad attacking a flag, move your squad over to assist.

 Communication is not required, however i have been know to type in all CAPS to another squad leader:

 Squad 1 will assist 2 or squad 1 help 2.....


 ;)



Offline LuckyOne

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #32 on: 03-01-2014, 17:01:27 »

I can take care of the first 3 types... but the last one i dont know because:

1st - Its dificult to keep constant contact with another squad so the cordination could be better (and the best way to do it is to SPEAK and not TYPE with them... but as you see, voip isnt enabled for inter-squad speaking i guess... only mumble - but it gives a lot of lag)

2nd - Lets imagine you can actually speak with other squad, and then you find out than their squad is totaly anarchist... what are you suposed to do wen you are (sometimes) the only real teamworking squad in the team? (by that i mean having the entire squad with you and not making their own wars, so if you tell them to atack they will spawn on you, atack, ect.. and we dont see many squads behave like that)

I would really like to make an 20 players atack with 2 teamworking squads... but its really dificult to get the another squad ready  :-\

Ideally, that's the situation where the commander's role should come in. And I'm sure that was original DICE's intention when they decided to put him in the game.

... Unfortunately that means the commander should be someone who's really good at communicating things AND able to persuade other players (squadleaders) to do things he suggests. Also, he needs to be inifinitely patient because there's not a lot a commander can do in FH2, and on 762 he's not allowed to fight either, so most of the time people will just take the seat, drop some arty/supplies and then leave the spot.

And since the commander has absolutely no power whatsoever , nor he can give some visible incentive to people - and I don't count "good job, squad, I'll recommend you for a non-existent medal" as a visible incentive, he can't really do much on improving inter-squad coordination. (unless he's an admin and decides to abuse his position).
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline MaJ.P.Bouras

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #33 on: 03-01-2014, 19:01:43 »
Then again thats why there are tournaments and thats why theres more people playing in tournaments than public. Once you've experienced something as good as playing with 50+ organised people, you simply can't go back to running around with 1 squad doing shit and 7 more of lone wolfs.

Offline Damaso

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #34 on: 04-01-2014, 04:01:27 »


Ideally, that's the situation where the commander's role should come in. And I'm sure that was original DICE's intention when they decided to put him in the game.

... Unfortunately that means the commander should be someone who's really good at communicating things AND able to persuade other players (squadleaders) to do things he suggests. Also, he needs to be inifinitely patient because there's not a lot a commander can do in FH2, and on 762 he's not allowed to fight either, so most of the time people will just take the seat, drop some arty/supplies and then leave the spot.

And since the commander has absolutely no power whatsoever , nor he can give some visible incentive to people - and I don't count "good job, squad, I'll recommend you for a non-existent medal" as a visible incentive, he can't really do much on improving inter-squad coordination. (unless he's an admin and decides to abuse his position).


Well, i could get commander sometimes...  but the squadleaders i would  give orders should organize themselfes as well (imagine sending 1 order to an squadleader, he acepts but he cant get anywone together...  ::) )

Yeah: i guess i will try to do it, and i will try to call the atention of the players to organize good squads (since it looks like the "server teamwork" grewed up a bit in last years :D

Offline Gotkai

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #35 on: 05-01-2014, 11:01:34 »
Maybe it has something to do with some noobs sitting at the commander radio trying to give experienced players idiotic orders.
No wonder no one listens to them. I will not, because i think i know how to play and win the maps. Don't need a commander.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #36 on: 05-01-2014, 13:01:13 »
Maybe it has something to do with some noobs sitting at the commander radio trying to give experienced players idiotic orders.
No wonder no one listens to them. I will not, because i think i know how to play and win the maps. Don't need a commander.

Fair point, but it's exactly that kind of attitude that makes squad-squad coordination impossible. Every SL is thinking "I know better than some guy who has been staring at the map for the past half an hour". And the truth is, sometimes you don't, because as a SL you can't be paying attention to the map all the time. The commander can, because he has no other job.

Maybe the problem is that the commander can't possibly convey any info on what he knows about the situation directly to the map. That's why I like the PR commander marker system, the commander there has a direct impact on the state of the map and can mark known enemy positions. Also, since the last patch he can use the UAV to be the "all seeing eye in the sky". We do have something similar in FH2 with the commander scout plane, but it requires a dedicated pilot who isn't bored with flying around and helping the commander see the situation. I still think the problem is mostly in the limited tools of the commander and lack of communication between commander and his "subordinates".

If every SL did his job and reported known enemy positons to the commander (even spotting with binoculars could do), and commander could permanently mark them on the map things could improve ten-fold. The commander could keep an eye on the "big picture" and SLs could focus on the tactical situation of the current flag they are attacking, with enough info to plan their approach accordingly.
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #37 on: 06-01-2014, 08:01:01 »
 Would be cool to have a field radio or some kind of pickup kit that would allow a SL to talk to other squads, but im sure the devs have looked at that and decided the coding would be a nightmare.

 Im not even sure if PR has anything like that do they?


  :-\



Offline Gotkai

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #38 on: 06-01-2014, 11:01:11 »
I'd say it's not impossible, but with time you rely on the experienced players and the mentioned SL. With you know how they play and you can react. Playing with Steiner, 5hitm4k3r, Odium etc. without orders will promise more success than follow Damasos Commander orders.
In my oppinion is Commander almost as useless as the medic kit.

Offline djinn

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #39 on: 07-04-2014, 18:04:18 »
The commander is a game mechsnic that was not fully realized because there may have been difference of opinion in the devs, specifically mappers, so there was eventually not enough justification to invest time and skill into providing more functiinality to the role.


On a team play level, i still find coordinating attacks with commander artillery can make taking a base that much easier after it's been plastered with arty and all it's defensive guns blastered away
« Last Edit: 07-04-2014, 18:04:09 by djinn »

Offline djinn

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #40 on: 01-09-2014, 09:09:43 »
Here's an update.

I find that simply allowing your squad to understand your tactical role makes them not only follow the plan, but fight with aggression not seen in the rest of your team.

Essentially, this tip is on how to create a crack team. It doesn't take hours of training together, although it helps to work with individuals who are great at some specific things like sniping, or mg etc.

Still, this goes for even averagely skilled players like myself.

If you decide to hold a building on the flanks rather than simply plough into the enemy with the rest of your army, and you can communicate why doing so is what is actually turning the battle, your men won't need to be micro managed.

Indeed, they start to take initiate themselves in a way which funnels into your strategy.

To the enemy, your squad appears to be some elite force out of hell that fights aggressively, cant be dislodged and either blunts even their most concerted attacks or throws them back with little support from armor or the rest of your team, and showing up from no where.


A proviso for this type of play is to play with some discipline. You may route the Allies in Sidi Rezegh playing this way, but you need to stop pushing into them once they are in their base. Pull the reins on your men's aggression at that point so you don't become that squad not playing by the rules.

In another instance, you may put up so good a defense that the enemy force bypasses your position, breaking through another squad on your flanks and cutting you squad off in a now-uncap flag.

You need to do a fighting retreat. It may seem counter intuitive to how you should be playing, but a good strategist knows when to fight at one point and when to fall back and grind then enemy's forward thrust to a halt...


After all, by you are the only squad that can  8)

« Last Edit: 01-09-2014, 09:09:16 by djinn »

Offline Airshark79

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #41 on: 09-09-2014, 00:09:47 »
My type of thread.

The main idea behind the design of DICE's commander order system was to bring out options to the hivemind of the 64p play, and a  tiny factor of sensible division of tasks. Since the orders were easier to succeed with everyone nearly constantly on the move, the order system added a factor of fulfillment to the player in terms of interaction and sense of achievement.

 The natural evolution of FH2 lead to 2 critical differences. First, is the fact that everyone knows each other. Commander in Battlefield 2 was mainly an anonymous tool with many hopping on and off during and inbetween rounds. Being a strategically active commander in FH2 is being a fuckwit to some, if not many of the players, mainly due to the fact that chat is already being used extensively to fulfill the commanders work in a democratic fashion.

The second and more important difference is the gameplay. Any sole squad effort is bound to fail unless there is little to no opposition or the squad is backing the main bulk of...

Offline Airshark79

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #42 on: 09-09-2014, 01:09:15 »
(posting on an old mobile phone)

...the team whom are effectively meat to avoid getting the plan botched in a short period.

This immediately prevents commanders intel and game knowledge advantage over the squadleader. And when it is so, commanders ideas of strategy becomes less reliable than the squadleader himself who is actually on the field getting challenged with similar frontier tasks again and again(see my rants about TTK).

This MAY vary between maps but in general sense it should tell why commander is a less desirable aspect which will get affected positively by more CQ:Head on type of maps and longer TTK.

I couldnt write all I had in mind but I think you can understand how commanders intel lacks compared to those on field and in which ways bf2 and fh2 differ.

Offline Airshark79

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #43 on: 09-09-2014, 01:09:33 »
Commanders intel lacks because 1.arrows are not enough to tell what kind of movements and positions the enemies take, 2.campers'
effect on a certain section cannot be visualised, and 3. situations consisting 30+ combatants cannot be reliably tracked and micromanaged, as again, people die too fast for it to matter.

I should congratulate djinn for his passion towards teamplay, and also suggest joining a fhonor campaign for broadening of vision on the matter.

I cannot argue like i used to because im on this phone for 2 hrs for 3 posts but ill be bach next year.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #44 on: 09-09-2014, 13:09:45 »
Can you please stop this?  ::)

Why are you still insisting on the fact that teamplay is allmost not possible when other more experienced people tell you the opposite? Teamplay fails when the opposition is too strong? Really? Please do me a favor and play more often - more precise: play more often with the right people on your side and then come back when you have more experience. It is ridiciolous to read those theories. Your squad is good, when it looks for a weakspot in the defence, thus opposition comes down to a minimum. If you don't do this, then your squad just sucks from a strategy POV and any teamplay mechanics won't help you when you fail right at the start. Good thing in FH2 is that the game tells you exactly when your team sucks. Those are the moments when people get desperate and frustrated.

Once more: just exchanging more shots, taking bullet after bullet or reviving people is not teamplay. It just gives people who made a mistake a second chance that they don't deserve from my POV. If you don't understand those basics then please don't dare to claim that you know it all. Especialy what it takes to be a good squadleader in FH2.

The commander role is a quite controverse topic for itself. I personaly think that this role is allmost useless and doesn't belong into the game where everything else is player controlled. If you want to have intel, use your recon planes, spread out, use binocs for scouting. In a good team all this falls into place in a quite natural way and doesn't need any forced mechanics. Clicking on a map and droping arty strikes or crates is not really playing the game in it's core sense.

Maybe you should really try new things before you claim more of this stuff. Ever had some good dogfighting with the right wingman on your side? This game offers so many possibilities to become part of a team that I sometimes don't know what to do next.

« Last Edit: 09-09-2014, 13:09:15 by hitm4k3r »