Author Topic: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.  (Read 10844 times)

Offline djinn

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TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« on: 08-09-2013, 13:09:19 »
This is one of those more controversial subjects that the community is very much divided on -- And there have been FH2 developers who believe this is nothing more than fiction.

Here's why I believe FH2 works, and how to use it more.

Assume that at any given time on the server, one side is better than the other; altered only by how well that team plays in attack vs. defense & the turnover of players.

To balance the odds, one must use teamplay.

Some basic tips in this respect:
1.
Boycott squads where it is clear the squad leader is a n00b, or spends more time dead, manning a one-man vehicle or doing absolutely nothing of importance to the general strategy.
This forces the team to organically-reorganize itself into squads that have good or at least decent squad leaders, who lead from the rear, position their squads to make a contribution to the team effort, and are likely to base their squad's action on what the team is doing.

TAKE AWAY
- Good squad leaders lead from the rear, or at least manage to stay alive and push forward so their squad can.
-A player leading a squad with apparently no concern for being a mobile spawn, whether of not his squad can spawn on him/ her, and if the squad knows what he's about is usually either a n00b or someone not interested in squad play... So why waste a potentially-fun session of FH2 running alongside such a person.

2.

There is a front. It's area transcended by the forward-most bulk of the enemy force(Isolated lone wolves don't count as they serve no strategic purpose).

Once you realize there is a front, you should next realize that front needs to be held and extended into the enemy domain. There is usually the main brunt of the enemy attack, where most of the squads are trying to push their way into your lines. Naturally much of your faction will react to counter the main brunt of the attack. Having your squad join the frey head-on simply adds to the bottleneck and frag-fest, in which individual player skill matters more than squad tactics-- And winning the skirmish depends more on  luck, and hoping your squad has better players than the other side. Under these conditions, expect to die often and for with least provocation.

The smarter alternative to this sort of game-play, is flanking and tactical use of weapons and positions. FH2 is all about logistics, and larger strategy. While dying you will, your ability to die less than the enemy and hence prevail is based on maneuver and position, (even if you don't realize that's what's going on) is what wins the day.

-If a squad remains to the flank of the main enemy advance, and can pick them off almost without becoming the main focus of the entire enemy force, it manages to weaken the enemy's attack altogether.

-If a squad holds a defensive position with good firing positions that overlook much of where the enemy can advance from, it depletes much of the enemy, and more importantly, their will to advance on that position. By comparison, a squad caught out in the open doesn't last long, and matters little to over-all strategy.

- Keep the defenses repaired and in position. Make sure each side of the defense is protected by enough people to push back the enemy or stop them in their tracks. Keep AT mines in positions and replace those that go off in order to deny the enemy a chance to flank you. Fix AT guns and mgs and keep varying weapon types defended by others e.g. An mg position needs to defended on the flank by infantry. AT a better positioned to the flanks, not the front of advancing tanks etc.

-If the enemy is manning a strong point, like the 20mm flakvierling on Point Du Hoc, it is stupid to attack enmasse in one direction. Recognize where the main attack is, and move on the flanks. Granted, you might be dealing with enemy on your own flanks, but move quickly, as they won't expect a serious attack from that side and will be focused more on trying to get to your main force, which they can hear and likely have already faced. Get to the flanks and destroy that hard point, allowing your main team to use that amassing of numbers to punch through the enemy.


3.
Most players are logical people, so strategy against them is based on this.
If an enemy realizes they are dying meaninglessly against a position, eventually they will either change attack or bleed their side.

After any given attack to take a position, expect a counter-attack, because players will almost always counter-attack to take back a lost flag. After taking a flag, you are usually at your weakest, waiting for squad members to spawn and other squads to reinforce the area by spawning or using that safe route.

DO NOT move into the enemy right after an attack or you will be obliterated by an enemy, probably reinforced, and hence the newly captured flag vulnerable. Instead, dig in and blunt their counter-attack.

You can tell when their attack has failed, because enemy action would be in drips and drabs rather than full squads and armor. At this point, the enemy attack has been blunted, they have lost the initiative & it is your turn to take the field with a now reinforced squad.


FINALLY
Remove deadly enemy threats BEFORE dealing with the rest of the enemy force. If there is an mg present. Take it out fast, or it becomes a fire base for advancing infantry. This isn't neccesarily coordinated, it is simply the facts of warfare. While an mg is picking people off or preventing them from fighting more boldly, the enemy gets an advantage and will likely be moving forward under that mg fire.

The same goes for tanks. Remove enemy tanks fast, before infantry amass around it, using it as a rally point or worse, a base of fire to move in.


If this isn't proof enough that teamplay and tactics do exist in FH2, I don't what else is.
« Last Edit: 09-09-2013, 22:09:57 by djinn »

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #1 on: 08-09-2013, 17:09:13 »
It doesn't work (in FH2 - public)....

/thread
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #2 on: 08-09-2013, 17:09:17 »
This hasn't anything to do with public or not, and teamplay is possible on public FH2 servers too. PR has teamplay too, also on public servers. Ofcourse it is build around the teamplay aspect more than FH2, but it features the right tools for teamplay.

 *cough* We need Mumble *cough*

Offline djinn

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #3 on: 08-09-2013, 22:09:40 »
Actually, each time I play on public.. cuz I've like never played on y'know.. tournament before? ya, I always get Teamwork.  ::)

But please, don't let me stop you from spoiling the FH2 online experience for yourself, LuckyOne.

Offline Korsakov829

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #4 on: 09-09-2013, 02:09:59 »
The only teamwork I've really ever seen in FH2 is 5 guys following a squad leader, that's about it. In my experience, a complete stranger running past an experienced group tends to get a few guys killed, and I don't refer to the enemy.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #5 on: 09-09-2013, 10:09:41 »
I never said teamwork is not possible in FH 2. It just that it doesn't really work on public servers. While squad level teamwork is somewhat doable (even if the incentive is very low to do it), multiple squads working together is almost impossible to do.

The lack of proper tools (communication) and incentives (ability to actually suppress, flanking routes which are sometimes non-existent) take away a lot from people who would like to teamwork. Even in tournament play, teamwork often comes to getting people in the capzone together, and attacking from multiple directions, sometimes with armor support, as anything else doesn't really make sense gameplay-wise...
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Roughbeak

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #6 on: 09-09-2013, 16:09:10 »
Teamwork is possible with public servers, it all depends who the players are in the squad.
Of course you will get some noobs in public who do not know what they're doing half the time...
If the team has at least 1 good squad, and the other one is half-ways decent you will win.

Offline Slayer

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #7 on: 09-09-2013, 17:09:05 »
Hehe, nice wall of text again, djinn, it had been a while ;)

Some of the stuff you write is a tad utopic, but most of it is doable. Some of what you write I don't quite understand though, like
Expect to die often and for with least provocation.

Also, some words are missing here and there, so if you like having many readers, pls edit it a bit.

Offline djinn

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #8 on: 09-09-2013, 22:09:02 »
That text refers to what happens when a squad, or player decides to 'follow the crowd'.

Usually, you get the main thrust of the enemy advance facing off with the main opposition of your team.
Statistically, expect to run into enemy posing various threats, many of which your skill will be hopeless to stop.

I never said teamwork is not possible in FH 2. It just that it doesn't really work on public servers. While squad level teamwork is somewhat doable (even if the incentive is very low to do it), multiple squads working together is almost impossible to do.

The lack of proper tools (communication) and incentives (ability to actually suppress, flanking routes which are sometimes non-existent) take away a lot from people who would like to teamwork. Even in tournament play, teamwork often comes to getting people in the capzone together, and attacking from multiple directions, sometimes with armor support, as anything else doesn't really make sense gameplay-wise...

Like I said. I ALWAYS play on Public servers cuz I've NEVER played in tournaments, and THIS is how I play, and it ALWAYs works.

Team-play is dependent on ONE person. It doesn't even have to be a squad leader, but it's better it is, since he's a mobile spawn. If I am a squad leader, and I use VOIP or even txt chat, and can articulate what the general strategy is to my squad, no matter how n00bish some are, they follow.

Everyone loves a winner, or someone who appears to know what the fuck they're doing, cuz it's clear to most, that most squad leaders don't.

What tends to happen is I say 'Hi' and start actually moving with purpose. The squad grows steadily mostly, with me shouting out instructions etc. No one needs to chat back. Some do sometimes, but it's rarely of tactical import.

Point is, like anywhere else, most pubbies are looking to enjoy their gaming experience. If a squad leader can offer that by making them meet the best of the enemy force, cap flags or defend them, and basically do something relevant, you get their obedience.

The only teamwork I've really ever seen in FH2 is 5 guys following a squad leader, that's about it. In my experience, a complete stranger running past an experienced group tends to get a few guys killed, and I don't refer to the enemy.

This strategy is focused ON squad level.

Rule 3, the army will do what the army will do, it's your squad's job to play off that.
The army, for instance is likely to be caught in the bottleneck, dealing with the enemy. It's not conscious. It just is. your squad needs to exploit the open.
« Last Edit: 09-09-2013, 22:09:51 by djinn »

Offline versus

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #9 on: 07-11-2013, 14:11:20 »
if you want real teamwork in a nice atmosphere, you should join either WaW or FH.



Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #10 on: 07-11-2013, 15:11:41 »
I tried FlH and it is ok, but not so special how people make it sounding. It is fun and not so much different from public play actually - atleast for me. It depends what you try to get out of your public play, nothing else. Overall the experience is quite the same for me. I play with a bunch of skilled people I know between a horde of many headless chickens. ;D

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #11 on: 07-11-2013, 16:11:09 »
I tried FlH and it is ok, but not so special how people make it sounding. It is fun and not so much different from public play actually - atleast for me. It depends what you try to get out of your public play, nothing else. Overall the experience is quite the same for me. I play with a bunch of skilled people I know between a horde of many headless chickens. ;D

It depends, but I'd say the biggest difference compared to public play is that your fun is not gonna get ruined by some random troll / newbie that still doesn't have a clue how the game works. Plus the maps are different and they use the rally point system, meaning your SL is always actively participating in the attack, and has direct view of the situation. Of course there are times when you just sit on your ass for the whole round because HQ orders your regiment to guard a backflag that the other team never reached for the last 5 rounds, but other times it's quite action paced and fun, and you always have an excuse when you lose (blame it on the HQs lack of vision or the usual map imbalance :P).
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Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #12 on: 07-11-2013, 18:11:04 »
I tried FlH and it is ok, but not so special how people make it sounding. It is fun and not so much different from public play actually - atleast for me. It depends what you try to get out of your public play, nothing else. Overall the experience is quite the same for me. I play with a bunch of skilled people I know between a horde of many headless chickens. ;D

It depends, but I'd say the biggest difference compared to public play is that your fun is not gonna get ruined by some random troll / newbie that still doesn't have a clue how the game works.

Wrong ... simply wrong. The three or four matches I have played yet, there were always people, who never played FH2 before, also in my squad. I don't want to blame them for anything, as they did a great job in general, but naturally they simply don't know how the game works and you have to guide them. And people still run into s-mines over and over again or can't judge who is friend or foe.

If you play public mostly on your own without any other people, it is ofcourse a difference like night and day. But for me there is no difference. In public as in the tourney matches I hang with people in a TS channel and cooperate with them. As I said. What you get out of the game and experience is up to the player and has nothing to do with playing public or in a tournament.

The biggest difference for me are new maps, that assets are not teamlocked and the spawn on rp's. But that's about it from my POV. Most interesting thing for me is to get hands on some new maps and try how they play.

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #13 on: 08-11-2013, 08:11:55 »
 I have been complemented many times on the way i run my squad "DevilDogs"

 If a good squad leader can convince the other 5 players that he knows what he is doing & get some small early successes, it really becomes fun.....Mine roads, ambushes, hit & run tactics, sabotage.

 


 8)



Offline djinn

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Re: TEAMWORK - And why it actually works.
« Reply #14 on: 17-11-2013, 18:11:11 »
I don't even understand why people try to argue this.
If you want to lone wolf it, that's fine.

But I PLAY on public servers exclusively. Never played F|H
So I wont even know how that plays.

What I do Know is spelled out here.

Your average Fh2 player picks Fh2 because they like WWII scenarios
Amd tech enough to play an 8yr old engine to get it. Most are NOT n00bs,
But simply lack leadership...That applies anywhere, from Dday to real work conditions.

Let your squad know you have a plan and communicate it simply and timely,
And more often than not at least 2people in your squad will follow instructions 80%
Of the time, and 3 - 4 people will follow 60% of the time.

You can sufficiently multiply these by a factor of 1.5 - 2 for 10-man squads on the 128 server.

The key thing is to decide to lead, amd then, do so.

Most players want to be immersed in the action,
So unless you've decided to do something random like defendes a bridge
Far from the attack, or something as specific as mining an area for a reason you haven't properly articulated, you will get at least 1 or 2 people following.

The basic Fh2 pubbie at leat knows how to fire their rifle.
For the most part, that's all you need them to do.