Author Topic: The Minor Suggestions Thread  (Read 35923 times)

Offline Oberst

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #495 on: 07-01-2018, 18:01:41 »
What about infantry combat? People with good ping will be at even more advantage. Because the visual feedback (blood dust) and also the "ricochets" you talked about are calculated client side. The client estimates positions based on the last movements he recieved from the server. How to properly adjust your aim point? People will complain 24/7 about: "But I hit him in the face." "Cheater, cheater". I think the old forgotten honor public server had no hit indicator for some time. This was quite nice for the feeling, infantry fights lasted a little longer, but I dont think it worked for everybody.

But overall I think, Forgotten Hope 2 is still a game and not a simulator. And important for any game to feel fair is to provide reliable feedback. As the hit indicator is the only form of reliable feedback, the only option I see, is to stick with it.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #496 on: 07-01-2018, 20:01:43 »
Oh yeah, you're right. FH2 Game Nights (Grizzly Hunts) used to have it turned off and I miss it.

I always find hit indicator only to be annoying and confusing, as it often pops up when you hit an already dead body or sometimes a vehicle wreck. It makes long range rifle combat too easy, those extreme ranges in most cases do not end up as 1s1k, but when you hit once, it's easy to make another accurate shot. Hit indicator almost tells you how to aim, it also gives an unfair advantage to ground vehicles, giving them the opportunity to adjust their aim when they spray their MGs into the air, shooting down / damaging enemy planes.

You want to shoot a running soldier 500 meters away? Fine. You wanna shoot down a plane with your tank's coaxial MG? Cool. But those are tricks that should depend only on a shooter skill, not an artificial hit indicator. Not having it is far more exciting.


« Last Edit: 07-01-2018, 20:01:15 by jan_kurator »

Offline Dancho

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #497 on: 08-01-2018, 00:01:59 »
YES! YES!. Get rid of it already!

Online GeoPat

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #498 on: 08-01-2018, 06:01:12 »
People already complain and yell cheater about hitting people in the face, etc.  They don't notice whether or not there is an indicated hit at close range.

As a high pinger, the only thing I use the hit indicator for is "reconnaissance by fire" i.e. shooting through the fog and undergrowth.  That too leads to charges of cheating.  "You can't see me!!". 

I would love to get rid of it and the dynamic spotting.  I know you don't want a combat simulator, but WWII shouldn't have that science fiction crap in it.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #499 on: 08-01-2018, 13:01:02 »
I know you don't want a combat simulator, but WWII shouldn't have that science fiction crap in it.
Hit indicators can be easily switched off server side. Maybe one of the 762 servers can do it ;)

Offline ajappat

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #500 on: 08-01-2018, 13:01:00 »
On the other hand it would make this mod near impossible for new players.
How so? If it will make anything, it will for example make tanking less confusing, since hit indicator is the same when you do 1% or 99% damage. It's better too look for ricochets or smoke coming out of the enemy's engine rather to rely on a game mechanism out of 2003.
Most friends I managed to lure into FH2, that were unfamiliar with BF2 to begin with, were totally at loss at how to hit with weapons. Bullet drop and bullet speed in this mod arent very intuitive I guess. Another point I was going to make, was tank combat, but I guess looking for ricochets works. Try guessing if you are doing damage to a tank with any hand held AT weapon however.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #501 on: 08-01-2018, 17:01:41 »
If you're using a hand held AT weapon and your first hit didn't kill / damage tank enough to make it burn you're doing it wrong and you're most likely gonna die (and probably deserved it). Hit indicator won't help you in any way. Everything else is actaully common sense and basic knowlegde about WWII era weapons. You're not going to play a 10 years old  game with this level of historical accuracy without being interested in it.

Offline Slayer

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #502 on: 08-01-2018, 18:01:53 »
Hit indicator won't help you in any way.
I disagree there: on some spots teh AT rifles do damage on tanks and others they don't. The hit indicator helps you there. It's a bit shortsighted and/or elitist imo to assume that you "just have to understand how it worked irl" to be able to play FH2.

Offline MajorMajor

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #503 on: 08-01-2018, 19:01:30 »
You're not going to play a 10 years old  game with this level of historical accuracy without being interested in it.

I disagree with this as well, since FH2 got me interested in WW2 and not the other way around. When I started playing almost four years ago, I only had a passing interest in WW2. It was only until I started playing FH2, and realized that there was much more to it than the American liberation of France (as I had been taught by TV and games), that I started craving for more knowledge about it.

Different people, different motivations, I guess.

Offline 0utlaw

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #504 on: 08-01-2018, 20:01:51 »
Ive always agreed with no hit indicators and no dynamic spotting enemy positions/movements. Id rather have minimap markers for sqdleads/command or something similar to it.

Online GeoPat

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #505 on: 08-01-2018, 22:01:23 »
I always wonder how much of the so-called FH2 learning curve is really just a sense of entitlement that is encouraged by the arcade gameplay.  People new to a game should be at the the bottom of the scoreboard, shouldn't they?  But some people think they got skilz and if it doesn't quickly transfer to a new game they think the game is broken.

When I was a noob(with high ping), I focused on sneaking around and causing maximum disruption.  For example, repairing the AT behind enemy lines, sneaking into flags of course, or just going on hand grenade missions.  It's way more satisfying than obsessing about score and rank, IMO.  However, some new guys want to win rifle duels with seasoned veterans or they get discouraged.

We all know that the other BF2 mod is way more difficult yet remains more popular.  It has figured out either deliberately or inadvertently how to keep a score-whore culture from developing.  Except for the asset drivers and maybe some snipers, no one is good at that game.  You are either competent or completely useless.  When the medic is usually at the top of scoreboard nobody even cares about it.  I kinda like that.  Anyway, making the game easier to obtain will get us more players than making it easier to play.

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #506 on: 08-01-2018, 23:01:50 »
Hit indicator won't help you in any way.
I disagree there: on some spots teh AT rifles do damage on tanks and others they don't. The hit indicator helps you there. It's a bit shortsighted and/or elitist imo to assume that you "just have to understand how it worked irl" to be able to play FH2.
On some spots AT rifles do damage tanks and on others they produce visual ricochet effect (the same big caliber AT cannons do) which can be easily seen from very far away and even with a bright light setting on maps like on El Alamein.

How many times have you seen new players moaning about BOYS rifle being useless against tanks on NA maps? I did see that many times. Yet it is called AT rifle and it's a primary weapon for the AT class on African maps. It's confusing and hit indicator won't help it. On the other hand having the knowledge that BOYS rifle was pretty much obsolete already when it was introduced, will. I'm not saying that you have to understand how it worked IRL to be able to play, but knowing a little bit about it will help you a big deal, otherwise you will have to learn that the hard way (you can also ask other players or watch a bloody tutorial video before you'll play the game but apparently that's too difficult for most of the new guys).

But let's agree on hit indicator being helpfull for AT rifles, it helps you to find the best spots to shoot at and what knot. The problem is, you still have to find those spots with the trial and error method, if you don't know then already (and in most cases it's just a basic knowledge about WW2 era armor, or a common sense, nothing elitist about it). The other problem is, damage done by AT rifles is very inconsisent, although the hit indicator always looks the same. You can take out some light tanks with 2-3 well placed shots, but if you're just trying your luck it can take you up to 10 shots for the same tanks, even if all your hits dealt some damage and gave you the hit indicator back as a result.

Bigger tanks are even worse, for example russian AT rifles can take out a panzer IV (with mutliple shots to the back or if you're lucky enough to find one without the side skirts) or even a panther, but I'm not sure if you can carry enough ammo on you, to destroy the latter without being forced to look for a ammo crate, and being lucky enough not to be spotted by the tanker during the time you'll need to put all those bullets between the hull and tracks (the only spot AT rifle can deal some damage to panther).

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #507 on: 09-01-2018, 02:01:19 »
You guys realize that you are allowed to write "Project Reality" on this forum?

Offline Slayer

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #508 on: 09-01-2018, 15:01:13 »
@Jan: OK, I don't use the rifle so often that I recall if I saw visual ricochets or not.

It's not that I'm hardcore in favour of keeping hit indicators, but I think they are part of the game, and not "something scifi", because if we want to remove anything close to being "something scifi", we have to remove the repair feature to begin with. Repairing cannons, or entire tanks, takes way longer than is represented ingame and you need an entIre crew for it, let alone that in certain cases you need other stuff too, like spare parts, or oil, or a maintenance station or whatnot.

So while I agree the hit indicator is not working as it could, at least it does something useful ingame, as it passes info to the player that he hit something and did some damage (exception here are dead bodies/vehicle wrecks, would be nice to have those reworked at least).

Offline justasug

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Re: The Minor Suggestions Thread
« Reply #509 on: 09-01-2018, 16:01:07 »
I've never really considered the hit indicators before reading this discussion. My main gripe was with the minimap, moving spotted units and 3D indicators (apart from mines).

But now that I've read it, it does seem unnecessary. Especially for the tanks as mentioned by jan_kurator. There are already ricochet effects that offer an "immersive" way to see if you've landed a hit. It takes a bit more effort to see it, especially if firing through smoke which happens quite often with tanks. Right now all you have to do is see the red indicator pop up and you know you've landed a hit, even if you don't see the tank.

I'm not so sure about rifle combat, but I've never played without them. I'm a "low ping player" though, so I can't say how much it helps those with higher pings. The best indicator whether you've hit someone or not is if he goes down, together with the kill feed to be honest.