Author Topic: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?  (Read 2309 times)

Offline ColGBM

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Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« on: 03-02-2013, 14:02:42 »
First a salute to all the forum, since I'm a new member.

Then, a compliment for this MOD because it is really a great job, and some maps are just fantastic...

I wrote this, however...

There is one thing I did not really explain:

The movement of the vehicles, especially those armored, is one thing... do not come me the terms...
All slow, with an inertia exaggerated... seems to drive the spacecraft in space in zero gravity... or lunar modules.  :o
Enter, and use, a tank, it seems to go from a war movie of IIa GM, a science fiction film.  :-X

But no one has noticed this?
All convinced that it is good and right this? ! ?
I can not believe...  ::)

And, in any case, one thing is unreal ... IMHO.
I never had the chance to drive a real tank, but have you ever seen the original movies of the means used in this mod?
Or, simply, have you ever seen moving live (or used personally) a crawler from construction site?
Are "rough"... raw... move "nervously" and "short"... both in '"start," that in the "stop" of any action.
Much rougher than they are in the original game (which I have always considered a bug, or an "oversight insane arcade").
In this MOD ...unfortunately... have deteriorated significantly this situation, increasing slowly and, above all, in a huge inertia.

And this also worsens another defect of the original game:
Every now and then the vehicles jam in positions trivial and you can not move them.
The modification of the movement made by this MOD, much worse than even the fault of the original game.
At least that you noticed, I hope...  :P

My idea is that we should go in the opposite direction, trying to make every movement much more "dry" & sharp.
Maybe a little slower than the original game (but also not always...), for realism... but without all the inertia present now.


I hope you read this my text as a harsh criticism but constructive.
I really hope that this annoying defect can be corrected, because for the rest ... I love this mod ...



Cordially


ColGBM


P.S.

Sorry for my bad English, but I do not know and I must to use translators online that suck

Sorry for my bad English, but I do not know and I must to use translators online that suck

Offline Slayer

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #1 on: 03-02-2013, 15:02:41 »
Hi ColGBM, welcome to FH2 forums!  :)

If I understand correctly, you would like to see the movement of vehicles changed, because in your opinion they move too fast now, right? You would like to see the vehicles start slower, and then increase speed more gradually, and when they brake, to have them decrease speed more gradually too, am I right?

If not, please correct me.

Movement of vehicles has been made so that driving times from base to certain flags are acceptable for both the defnders of the flag and the drivers of the vehicle. So making them slower in general would be in favour of the defenders, as they would have more time after destroying an attacking tank (and therefore they let the enemy bleed more tickets). Changing vehicle speeds therefore has a lot to do with balance, and can't be changed quickly, as it has so many consequences. But of course it can be taken into consideration, it is just that a dev has to look into it and I'm not sure if they have time for it.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #2 on: 03-02-2013, 18:02:00 »
I think he means tanks and vehicles are too slow and have too much inertia... Sometimes it takes forever to start going and to stop... And don't get me started on turning times... Hell even tanks in vBF2 could turn much more realistically than those in FH2!


But I guess this won't be changed as it's too much work...

I mean look at this, and try to do it in FH2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=__K2BzxR2BY#t=100s
« Last Edit: 03-02-2013, 18:02:00 by LuckyOne »
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Gunnerz

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #3 on: 03-02-2013, 19:02:08 »
Tanks can be operated smoothly when the driver isnt a retard. Its the same with excavators.
I think that the problem is that ingame when driving tanks, you dont need to shift gears.
Because of this you reach the topspeed in about 2 seconds when driving a tank ingame.
« Last Edit: 03-02-2013, 20:02:23 by Gunnerz »

Offline Gunnerz

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #4 on: 03-02-2013, 20:02:00 »
Also, you can not turn a tank ingame without moving forwards, and this is a real problem when you are on a steep hill.

Real tracked vehicles can make 360 deg. turns without moving forward, simply by turning one track in the opposite direction of the other track.

« Last Edit: 03-02-2013, 20:02:59 by Gunnerz »

Offline ksl94

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #5 on: 09-02-2013, 19:02:21 »
I think he means tanks and vehicles are too slow and have too much inertia... Sometimes it takes forever to start going and to stop... And don't get me started on turning times... Hell even tanks in vBF2 could turn much more realistically than those in FH2!

I mean look at this, and try to do it in FH2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=__K2BzxR2BY#t=100s

I passionately second this! Dear developers, please consider this absolute top priority for the next release. The current settings are simply unbearable!

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #6 on: 09-02-2013, 19:02:05 »
Question is do we want tanks to be even harder to kill for infatry? I mean on big tank maps this is not a problem, but on infantry heavy maps like Port en Bession, Anctonville, Brest?

Second did tank crews ever go on full speed like this in combat situation? Dont know if such a video is a good comparison with the simulation of combat in Fh2.

But I have to agree that driving on hills con be really annoying, but I suppose its hard coded.
« Last Edit: 09-02-2013, 19:02:57 by hyperanthropos »

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #7 on: 09-02-2013, 20:02:53 »

Second did tank crews ever go on full speed like this in combat situation? Dont know if such a video is a good comparison with the simulation of combat in Fh2.

But I have to agree that driving on hills con be really annoying, but I suppose its hard coded.

Well let's try to be logical... You're in a big steel coffin with extremely reduced visibility. You know there are tons of enemies around you with anti-tank weapons that can turn you and your comrades into a pile of goo... Would you step on it, or go slowly like you don't give a s***?

And driving on hills isn't hardcoded, at least the tanks were able to climb better (and especially reverse better) before the last patch....
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline ColGBM

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #8 on: 09-02-2013, 21:02:52 »
Hello.
Meanwhile, I'm glad that my speech was read in the right way, and not in an unnecessarily polemical... does not always happen.

For the rest:

@ Slayer

No, the sense of what I wrote is the opposite... more or less as pointed out by "LuckyOne."


@ LuckyOne

Really good link.
To see even those suggested at the end of this video.


@ To ALL

The problem is that the real movement of a tank is immediate as starting and stopping.
It is not so much a problem of speed, that could also reduce more... but the starting and stopping of the movement should be much, much more immediate and decided, on the contrary by as it is in this MOD.
I do not know how it was before, and if you have changed in the different versions, is the my first test of this MOD, but I know how is the movement in the original version of the game (obviously), and I am sorry to note that, although very "arcade" is more realistic than this MOD.
I do not know how many players have been noticed and those who bother you, but for me is reason enough to discard this beautiful (for everything else) mod.
And I'm really sorry.
Fact often, at this time, I started playing Battlefield 1942 (a gift from ORIGIN), and I see ...unfortunately... that although much older and very arcade also this, the movement of tanks, also in this case, is better than your MOD.

In my opinion, to try to get state of the art, this would be the first change to be taken into consideration:
Make the movement of mechanical equipment (tanks and vehicles in general) as close as possible to the historical reality:
Maybe even slower, but immediate, and without all that endless swinging like a Venetian gondola in a stormy sea. What ever seen in a game "seriously".
And, as also noted by others (I had forgotten me), the Tanks should be able to turn on themselves... is a fact purely mechanical... in this MOD is practically impossible
Just be based on the video of the real tanks period suggested by the link posted.
That is the right way... IMHO.

I do not claim at the level of a simulation (I think anyway impossible on a game based on BF2), but as it is now... besides being really very annoying... looks more like a Cartoons, than a MOD of a war game.
Not even with M.A.M.E. (which I love, but for other reasons), the vehicles are moving that way.

I hope to be able to explain to me, in spite of the bad Google translations.

Otherwise ask again, I'll try to be more simple and telegraphic possible.


@ Gunnerz

I think you have not really understood the meaning of what I'm writing.
In any case, you're right on one point (if I understand correctly I)
The Tanks should be able to turn 360 ┬░ on themselves while standing still, which is practically impossible in this MOD.
For the speed of movement and the immediacy of "response to commands", just take inspiration from real videos of Tanks posted: that is the reality of the facts.

@ Hyperanthropos

The question is:
Want a fairly realistic game, or a semi-cartoons?

Second:
What it does, or can do a crew of Tanks will decide him from time to time...
You can not distort the facts to you because it is convenient or not convenient a behavior.

If you want a game that favors the infantry, try those games where there are no Tanks.
In BF2 there are so many servers that run the game "Infantry Only", but cripple the Tanks because you do not like, it is not a fair system.
I do not like the anti-tank weapons... but do not pretend to be crippled... I will do it a reason, the reality of war and this must be taken into account, is part of the game.
Otherwise, change the game, which is the most rational choice.


At the end:

I do not know what the intentions of the developers of this mod, if you make the game closer to the historical reality of the facts, or just do a huge loaf of maps and new vehicles to demonstrate their graphics capabilities...
If the goal is only the second, you've hit the big... a really good job. I write sincerely.
If the goal is (also) the first... and I sincerely hope that... we are still very far away, unfortunately... at least as regards the movement of vehicles.



Cordially


ColGBM
« Last Edit: 09-02-2013, 21:02:22 by ColGBM »
Sorry for my bad English, but I do not know and I must to use translators online that suck

Offline ksl94

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #9 on: 14-02-2013, 18:02:44 »
There is yet another vehicle that is now unusable: The civilian pickup truck. Just start a local server, enter one of these and ragequit soon after...

Offline |7th|Nighthawk

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #10 on: 14-02-2013, 19:02:38 »
Try the Traction Avant, ksl :D They removed the engine and inserted a mixer.
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Offline Turkish007

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #11 on: 14-02-2013, 19:02:45 »
the civilian truck is fine, it just has its own technique to drive.

Hint: stop pressing W when manouvering (A or D)

Offline ksl94

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #12 on: 14-02-2013, 19:02:35 »
Bloody hell! Did the devs troll us or is this meant to be serious?  :o
They're nerfing one vehicle after another! Could the developer behindd all this please tell us about the motivation behind it?

@ Turkish Commando: Well, I know, but the thing is that such old pre-war vehicles usually turn very slowly and cumbersome and this thing takes you from one wall to another...  :P

Offline |7th|Nighthawk

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #13 on: 14-02-2013, 19:02:58 »
It's been a long time since I last entered a K├╝belwagen but I have a bad feeling that it felt awkward to use it too...
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Offline ksl94

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Re: Tanks like spaceships ? ! ?
« Reply #14 on: 14-02-2013, 20:02:03 »
Yeah you're right! A couple of nights ago, I hopped into a KW that I took from a German I killed when he drove by in order to reconnect to my unit, but I went only as far as fifty metres before crashing into a house.
Frontally.  :-\ It had symptomes similar to the pickup truck.