Author Topic: SMGs are really weak  (Read 11021 times)

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #75 on: 01-04-2013, 11:04:55 »
indeed ouch  :) ;)

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Offline shocik

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #76 on: 04-04-2013, 16:04:15 »
I think that every hit should result in the victim jerk and immediately moves his crosshair down (as if bent over in pain). Then the duel would usually won by the one who first hit and not the one who has the rifle.

Offline BaskaBommi

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #77 on: 04-04-2013, 18:04:15 »
I think that every hit should result in the victim jerk and immediately moves his crosshair down (as if bent over in pain). Then the duel would usually won by the one who first hit and not the one who has the rifle.
There is no need for that I think. Rifleman is still underpowered against SMGs.
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Offline Gotkai

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #78 on: 04-04-2013, 23:04:00 »
Do we play the same game? In most cases i win with a rifle vs a SMG. Especially with semiautomatic rifles like Garands and G43.
The upcoming finnish and russian SMG are far stronger than the actual ones. But this is will not solute the actual imbalance.

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #79 on: 04-04-2013, 23:04:09 »
Yes, but you are an above aveerage player.

Offline |7th|Nighthawk

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #80 on: 05-04-2013, 00:04:34 »
At close range, a bolt action rifle can be much more lethal than a SMG in this game. You need at least 3 shots and the rifleman needs one (if it is not the K98. Lately, I always need 2 hits to kill someone with it). With proper reaction speed the rifleman will get you at least 50% of the time. This is too much in my opinion if the SMG has to do some sense.
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Offline BaskaBommi

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #81 on: 05-04-2013, 06:04:03 »
Do we play the same game? In most cases i win with a rifle vs a SMG. Especially with semiautomatic rifles like Garands and G43.
The upcoming finnish and russian SMG are far stronger than the actual ones. But this is will not solute the actual imbalance.
Yes, we do play the same game. Sure I have been killed by a rifleman when I tried to ice him with a Mp40, but it still doesn't mean, that a rifleman is a overpowered. G43 and Garands are diffrent cases from bolt-rifles, but that's life. Live with it.
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Offline LuckyOne

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #82 on: 05-04-2013, 12:04:29 »
Guys, remember they removed the crosshair... That single step made the SMG vs rifle more balanced than it ever was in FH2... Also I believe SMGs still have suppression, right? Yes, occasionaly we see people who are really good in CQB with a rifle, but there's no way to prevent people gluing things to their screens, and broken shaders that remove suppression are hardly the dev's fault.
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Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #83 on: 05-04-2013, 12:04:19 »
SMGs dont cause suppression.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #84 on: 05-04-2013, 12:04:52 »
SMGs dont cause suppression.

When was that removed? :O

I swear they did in the versions before... Well bring that back then!!!
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Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #85 on: 05-04-2013, 12:04:14 »
They never did, not even in 2.0.

Offline Flyboy1942

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #86 on: 18-06-2013, 18:06:15 »
SMG bullets are subsonic so they dont really have the same sonic boom crack as they pass by, and thus don't suppress like rifle bullets and MGs do.

Offline Steel_Lion_FIN

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #87 on: 18-06-2013, 20:06:56 »
Nope. Stens and MP40s have their muzzle velocities around 365-400m/s, PPSh-41 around 490m/s and KP-31 390m/s. Only subsonic ammo shooting SMGs were Thompsons and M3 Grease Guns and suppressed Stens.
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Offline theUg

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #88 on: 24-06-2013, 19:06:27 »
[Rifle aiming] is a bit too fast maybe. In close quarters it always looks like CoD-ish "Quick scope".
Mayhaps, it is because people do not aim down the sights, and shoot from the hip. While I echo Ts4EVER’s remark about not being able to stop people from gluing Scotch™ tape to their screen, it is actually possible to be fairly successful in close combat with the rifle without aiming — you just learn to have a feel where the middle of the screen is (in real life you do not have cross-hairs as well, though it is more of a motor memory thing to shoot from the hip).

That said, if you are to encounter SMG soldier that’s worth their salt, your only hope is to be lucky in that your hip shooting skill lands you a lethal hit when you startle the attacker, because if you miss, you be dead.

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You need at least 3 shots and the rifleman needs one (if it is not the K98. Lately, I always need 2 hits to kill someone with it).
This just shows the lack of skill. I don’t mean to be condescending (well, maybe a little), but the K98 is as much a one-shot kill, as it is any other bolt action rifle as any in the game, save for Carcano (which can do one shot kills as well, but at lower rate than other rifles).

Same thing with SMGs — if you learn to use them properly, they can be quite deadly. I am, admittedly, not very good with them (in fact, it is the only main weapon in game that I have negative KDR with, although it’s been improving lately as I had been training more with it, and it is close to be breaking even).

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As for general SMG discussion, I think a lot of it comes to personal preference. For instance, many people here expressed the feeling that MP40 is an inferior SMG. From my experience, however, MP40 is very nice SMG in game. Personally, I am a lot more effective with it, than with, say, Thompson (although, I had been getting better with latter — practise is a keyword). Also, I had noticed the general effectiveness of MP40 over Allied SMGs in a numerous campaigns/tournaments I had participated in. People with skill can aim into upper torso and head, and dispatch you with haste before you can even say “MP”.

A lot of people dislike Sten, but I like it in controlled short bursts — it can be very nice. It is not good for me to challenge other SMGs directly head on, but if I can flank an enemy, and surprise them, it is as deadly as anything. Again, what Christi was saying about putting oneself in advantageous situation.

I agree with the sentiment that Beretta is the best SMG in game, but it is still subjective. I like the feel of it, and iron sights, as other had mentioned (much like I prefer Carcano over other bolt action rifles — it maybe less lethal, but it feels great). It is quite good in ambush, and decent at short-medium range in single shot.

Grease gun for me is the worst, but I had not played it with it enough, and it may come down to skill and practise again. It may have steeper learning curve than, say, MP40, but I am sure it can be good in the right hands.

STG44 is a good all around weapon. It has a bit of a recoil in close quarters, but in controlled bursts down the sights it is still good. And in single shot at medium-long range it is almost as good as a rifle even if less lethal.


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Offline BaskaBommi

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Re: SMGs are really weak
« Reply #89 on: 24-06-2013, 20:06:45 »
A lot of people dislike Sten, but I like it in controlled short bursts — it can be very nice. It is not good for me to challenge other SMGs directly head on, but if I can flank an enemy, and surprise them, it is as deadly as anything. Again, what Christi was saying about putting oneself in advantageous situation.
Sten is probably disliked because it is rather lackluster assault/hipfire weapon unlike Thompson or MP 40
Silenced Sten is far more better in accurate shooting, normal one ain't as good.

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I agree with the sentiment that Beretta is the best SMG in game, but it is still subjective. I like the feel of it, and iron sights, as other had mentioned (much like I prefer Carcano over other bolt action rifles — it maybe less lethal, but it feels great). It is quite good in ambush, and decent at short-medium range in single shot.
I personally don't like it, but it can kill, but, for example, in Giarabub a Tommygun is too powerful compared to the Beretta. Tommy has the clip and the sprayin' , but the Beretta has the accuracy. (The ironsights suck, but Bomba is nice)
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Grease gun for me is the worst, but I had not played it with it enough, and it may come down to skill and practise again. It may have steeper learning curve than, say, MP40, but I am sure it can be good in the right hands.
It is exellent in stopping power and accuracy, but doesn't have the firepower.
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STG44 is a good all around weapon. It has a bit of a recoil in close quarters, but in controlled bursts down the sights it is still good. And in single shot at medium-long range it is almost as good as a rifle even if less lethal.
Agreed, but the hipfire is still very powerful and accurate.
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