Poll

What direction should the FH2 tank system go?

Longer tank fights, multiple penetrating shots needed to destroy tanks. Gameplay > realism. (Current tank system)
9 (12.5%)
Still longer tank fights, but not to the extend we have in the current version. Only smaller adjustments are needed. Still: Gameplay > realism
12 (16.7%)
Tank combat should be influenced by realism. The current system is frustrating. Previous versions with mainly 1S1K situations were better (2.4 was fine)
40 (55.6%)
I prefer a hardcore realistic game. A penetrating hit should result in a kill. The current version is a disappointment.
8 (11.1%)
Something else (explain)
3 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Author Topic: Asking the players about the tank system  (Read 3542 times)

Offline Butcher

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Asking the players about the tank system
« on: 02-10-2012, 15:10:56 »
Hello,

in the previous thread about the tank combat it turned out that the developers are planning to keep the tank combat of the current version. It´s supposed to offer more strategical depht and make more fun for players - at least that is what they claim.

We - the players - could play with this "improved" tank system the last months and I´m curious what your opinion is about it.

Is it really the right thing to introduce a totally unrealistic tank combat system into FH2? Are those longer lasting tank fights really more fun, or do you prefer relistic and thus shorter tank combat?

Vote and explain the reasons for your decision in random points for a better overall view.




My vote goes for Option 3. The tank combat used to be good in version 2.4. Realism should play an important factor, 1S1K (One shot one kill) - situations were common.

Reasons:

- The current system is not rewarding for the players. Your target gets away to often.
- Immersion suffers under this. It´s simply not realistic.
- Ambushes with Paks/Pounders or light armoured vehicles (Marder) become rather useless.
- It´s frustrating to outsmart your enemy and not get a kill.
- No fluid combat. Tanks sit at one point and get repaired. They rape infantry and the battle gets stucked.
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Offline Mud Buddha

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #1 on: 02-10-2012, 16:10:04 »
Well, I guess the truth lies somewhere in the middle. As an occasional tanker I like the new system. It gives you a greater chance to survive against tank campers and guys that are insanely familiar with certain maps. Now you can try to be of actual use with your tank.

But it bugs me a bit that the system is flawed and isn't tank-related anymore, seeing that Tigers suddenly become basically as vulnerable as Cromwells. It makes for funny situations in-game and I'm sure that wasn't the goal of the devs (firing your 76 mm at a 222 and have it survive...) . Also, our regular tank-aces (we all know who) are now even less likely to get killed.

I do like the fact that 1s1k is no longer possible. That was just as annoying overall as the new system. So I hope the devs figure out a way to keep everybody happy cuz as it seems now the player base seems to be divided on this subject.
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Offline Miklas

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #2 on: 02-10-2012, 19:10:51 »
I went with option 3 as well. Mainly because I enjoy being in AT guns and lightly armoured tank destroyers. In the current system even if you take time to place yourself in a nice ambush you still lose since everybody can 1s1k you but your supposedly powerful gun is now weak.
Also, the more powerful guns (76mm, 75mm L70, 88, etc.) seem way too weak at the moment. A 76mm Sherman should definitely 1s1k a Panther to the side (heck, even a 75mm Sherman should do that on shorter ranges) and Panzerfausts should have much more power.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #3 on: 03-10-2012, 10:10:40 »
I'm divided between option 2 and 3. I agree there should still be 1s1k situations with proper positioning and range, it should stay historical and "immersive", but not to the extent we had in the past where only the fastest trigger won (2.4 was an improvement definitely, but now we went overboard). Flanking, ambushing and accurate shooting should be awarded by 1s1k (but for accurate shooting we first need less deviation).
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline djinn

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #4 on: 03-10-2012, 12:10:25 »
You don't have the option of, I like the current damage system i.e I think its ok... I think your poll is biased to change.

Granted I hate the spacey tank motion, but tank damage for me is well balanced. I can survive a distant shot, but still experience 1s1k if aimed well.

It does have a few bugs, but its not a system change in as much as it is a fix-up that is needed, IMO.

Offline Natty

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #5 on: 03-10-2012, 12:10:33 »
points for idea, minus on execution. poll is leading and you just made it for those who you want to choose "3"....

"gameplay > realism" ?? what does that mean, lol. as if one excludes the other.. and in any case, game play is what drives games....

sorry but... we'll take care of this  8)

Offline Butcher

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #6 on: 03-10-2012, 12:10:47 »
You don't have the option of, I like the current damage system i.e I think its ok... I think your poll is biased to change.

Option Number one...
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #7 on: 03-10-2012, 12:10:32 »
points for idea, minus on execution. poll is leading and you just made it for those who you want to choose "3"....

"gameplay > realism" ?? what does that mean, lol. as if one excludes the other.. and in any case, game play is what drives games....

sorry but... we'll take care of this  8)

Well the course you are going is making the mod "more fun" on cost of realism - or did any Sherman stand 3 Pak40 hits from 100 metres in reality?

Option one is made for those who like the current tank system. Did I force anybody to vote for option 3? What direction should the Fh2 tank system go? ... bla bla bla (Current Tank system) aka option nr. 1

I´m under the impression you just don´t like the outcome, but then make a poll of your own.


And  the current tank system excludes realism. A panther taking 76mms in the side is not realistic. A Sherman taking multiple 75mm hits isn´t realistic. Previous versions weren´t hardcore simulations either, but much closer to actual tank combat.
« Last Edit: 03-10-2012, 12:10:49 by Butcher »
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Offline Natty

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #8 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:07 »
realism is subjective
game play is functional

cheers.

Offline djinn

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #9 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:17 »
realism is subjective
game play is subjective

cheers.

Fixed that for you

Offline djinn

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #10 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:03 »
You don't have the option of, I like the current damage system i.e I think its ok... I think your poll is biased to change.

Option Number one...

Oh sorry. Did't see the last bit. thanks for that. yes, its quite a fair poll.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #11 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:16 »
Ain´t realism objective? It´s hard numbers and facts. Nobody of us was there, but that´s what books are for.

Gameplay - whether judged by funtional or subjective criteria worked in version 2.4 (imo and obviously in the opinion of 3/4 of the people voting here).
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Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #12 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:11 »
How the hell is this poll biased? It offers enough different possibilities to choose from and is easy to understand. And what is wrong with "gameplay>realsim"? What is so difficult to understand? You can take penetration tables and other statistics, reports and so on to compare the performance of a tank in reality and in a game. But ofcourse some people have to imply that it is corrupted. It is not perfect from a statistical POV but it serves it's purpose.

The only thing I would change is to move this poll to the general discussion section so that more people can read it and vote. 

Offline djinn

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #13 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:39 »
How the hell is this poll biased? It offers enough different possibilities to choose from and is easy to understand. And what is wrong with "gameplay>realsim"? What is so difficult to understand? You can take penetration tables and other statistics, reports and so on to compare the performance of a tank in reality and in a game. But ofcourse some people have to imply that it is corrupted. It is not perfect from a statistical POV but it serves it's purpose.

The only thing I would change is to move this poll to the general discussion section so that more people can read it and vote.

Agreed.

Offline Natty

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Re: Asking the players about the tank system
« Reply #14 on: 03-10-2012, 13:10:49 »
Ain´t realism objective?

haha!.... serious question?... no no. it's not.. it is completely subjective. What one guy thinks is realistic, the other thinks is unrealistic etc etc....... sorry to burst your bubble.

@5hitman: "gameplay > realism" means nothing, we dont need to choose. obviously game play is more important, but both can co-exist.

poll is biased and leading.. you dont see that? Can't help you there then  :-\

compare penetration tables? gimme a break. sorry but, this went too far now. Thx for your feedback.