Author Topic: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45  (Read 23103 times)

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #315 on: 03-12-2012, 22:12:49 »
because often enough your tank will stay empty and useless in the middle of nowhere, NOT RESPAWNING FOR YOUR TEAM!

And what shitty said and Kuuperis second part.

Offline Horstpetersens

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #316 on: 04-12-2012, 01:12:57 »
Why? Because you could bail out from your extremely damaged plane and not to die in it. I don't think the devs created the pilot kits just for fun.
Pros fly engeneer kit.
There is no use to bail out of a plane just to get killed from it or ground forces.
If you survive you have to walk back miles to your airfield or more likely you get killed from friendly fire.

Offline TASSER

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #317 on: 04-12-2012, 04:12:00 »
In 2.45 you still get the points for destroying recently bailed vehicles (as I'm sure you guys are aware). I personally like the added dynamic of having to worry about enemy tankers bailing. In WWII I'm sure plenty of tank crews bailed from damaged tanks.
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Offline Kuupperi

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #318 on: 04-12-2012, 14:12:36 »
In the common situations I have seen the enemy destroys the whole tank so it won't just sit there broken being uncapable to spawn back to the mainbase. Not saying it wouldn't ever happen though but never seen it. Honestly if I bail out I'll also make sure the tank gets destroyed before leaving the scene.

About bailing in the middle of nowhere far from the flags; if you decide to bail out there then you also accept the fact it will take several minutes back to the closest flag. I agree it's a better option to die than walk miles but this means harm only to the bailer, not for the one destroying the tank. You won't get the kill but you know he isn't around to kill you for long time but I guess the single kill means more than that for most of us.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #319 on: 04-12-2012, 19:12:43 »
I guess the single kill means more than that for most of us.

Ofcourse. It is very satisfying after a challenging fight to get a kill and and not just a radnom tank blown up.
Ever killed Unique in a tank or Horst in a plane? Then you will know what I am talking about.
To disable the enemy vehicle is important too, but the kill has a much more influence on the game as it is connected to the ticket count and ... our ego  ;D

Offline Butcher

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #320 on: 04-12-2012, 19:12:34 »
And that was my point... what is satisfying in hitting three medium tanks with a Panther which does NOTHING at all. Ok, they propably all had to repair for 20 secs each, but that´s no fun.

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Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #321 on: 04-12-2012, 20:12:35 »
One team being smart enough to not destroy a bailed tank is rare but it does happen occasionally. Usually the tank is destroyed, either by friendly tankers who don't know it's bailed or by noobs for the sheer pleasure of blowing things up. But it does happen. Yesterday on Hurtgen an M10 driver rushed in Germeter and got wanged by a sniper, and common sense as it rarely does prevailed, and the Germans left the M10 to sit there until the end of the round, denying the Americans the opportunity of having a fresh one delivered to Katzenhardt.

The best example I've seen of this was on Lebisey, months ago, when a Tiger got bailed in between the two Southern flags and was defended by the Brits as though it was there own for several minutes. All attempts by German infantry to sneak back into the Tiger or kubelkaze up to it were unsuccessful (it was by that garage sort of house, way out in the open). The Germans were finally left with no alternative but to throw Panzerschreks at it until it blew up, just so it would respawn.

This only took one Panzerschrek, as this happened in 2.4.. :D.

I don't mind people bailing tanks. A lot of the time they genuinely do bail to repair, but your kill shot on the tank blew it up and sent the grease monkey sailing off into oblivion as well. You'll get the odd person here and there who really does just bail and run away, but those players are yelled at so thoroughly they usually stop doing it. Indeed, sometimes the amount of shit thrown at a guy for bailing a tank harkens back to the old FH1 days when you could jump into enemy vehicles, a la an American King Tiger rampage on Battle of the Bulge. I fondly remember being on the British team in Arnhem one round when a Jagdpanther was bailed and went on, in British hands, to completely shut down the bridge for the rest of the round. I don't bail tanks except when there is a genuinely good reason to, like if my Panzer II is one second away from barbecuing me on Fall of Tobruk and I am literally five feet away from the cap radius of a flag we're trying to get. I don't really have a problem with players doing that, it encourages me to be more creative and try for 1-shot kills. I can understand how some people might think it's unfair when tanks get bailed, but I think there's something to be said for the fact that if you give them an opportunity to bail, in a sense, you've made a mistake.

Planes on the other hand I shamelessly bail, but I always take a pilot kit. Serious pilots/assholes will take wrenches like Horst said, and he is quite right. But for me personally, I'm not a serious pilot (although undoubtedly an asshole), the only times I ever take planes are either when one's been sitting unused for a few minutes, or else taking the scout plane. On both occasions I will take a pilot kit, because you really can make something happen with nothing but a pistol and a smoke grenade. On Mareth Line we (Allies) once captured Matmata, when there was only 1 guy there and I bailed after being torn up by the 109. The 1 guy already at the flag couldn't cap it himself, but I parachuted down and helped out and we got it captured. Even better was as Germans on El Alamein, when I captured the northernmost flag after a parachute adventure, allowing half the German team to spawn there and providing the turning point in the battle*.

*Okay, we still got our asses kicked. But we held that flag for a good ten minutes against all attacks, and that never would have happened if I had stayed in my plane on some ridiculous notion that a guy who hasn't killed me deserved to kill me.

I don't really think anyone deserves anything. When the opportunity is there to shoot the pilot right out of the plane, why should I let you blow up my plane because you failed to do that? When the opportunity was there, with a bit more cunning on your part, to 1-shot kill my tank, why should I die and lose everything I have because you chose to start lobbing shells at me from half the map away? The enemy doesn't "deserve" a kill any more than I deserve to be killed. Logically, if simply firing a shell that doesn't kill me means he deserves to kill me, then it follows that if I bail and shoot at nearby enemy infantry, I deserv to kill them, even if I missed. I personally don't care about rankings or any of that beyond the rare treat of getting a silver Rifleman medal or something like that. But if it's all about stats, and people are mad that their stats don't reflect a kill they feel they should have had, why is it not a reasonable response to that for the enemy tanker to say "I care about my stats too and I'm not adding one more death to my total every time someone sets my tank on fire"?

Bailing without a chute, however, is definitely a bitch move. Anyone who does that deserves all the shit they get for it.
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Offline Kuupperi

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #322 on: 04-12-2012, 20:12:59 »
Ofcourse. It is very satisfying after a challenging fight to get a kill and and not just a radnom tank blown up.
Ever killed Unique in a tank or Horst in a plane? Then you will know what I am talking about.
To disable the enemy vehicle is important too, but the kill has a much more influence on the game as it is connected to the ticket count and ... our ego  ;D

Every one of us is going for the kill but the importance of disabling enemy vehicle is underestimated. Whining about bailing on the public chat is not going to stop bailing when people don't give a crap for bad feedback. Like you said before it's an unwritten law of FH2 and people obey this law however they feel like.

No doubt Unique and Horst are really good at what they are doing in game but I'm not throwing a party each time I get them killed so I barely know how you guys feel. In the end it's just one kill among others for me. Well sure it's one FH2 veteran out of the game for that short moment.

And finally nice message there Andrew. I think the most common reasons to destroy an abandoned tank is that no one is sure if there's anyone still in it. The bailing guy might be a squadmember and the real tanker is the squadleader himself. Some people just make sure and don't want to wait if there's anyone responding the firing because that might be fatal mistake.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #323 on: 04-12-2012, 21:12:07 »
Bailing is only a problem for statswhores... The current situation is this in FH2, a bailed tank will either:
a) get destroyed immediately after bailing by the enemy tank
b) get destroyed by a friendly teammate
c) get repaired by a friendly teammate and used again
d) auto explode after the respawn timer resets

So bailing isn't a problem at all, you still get some points, the enemy gets to fight another day or you simply mow him down with your coax...  The only problem is people being shot out of open topped vehicles that are at full health... so they take a while to respawn...
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline kummitus

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #324 on: 04-12-2012, 23:12:35 »
Isn't that more like a feature rather than problem?
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Offline Erwin

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #325 on: 13-12-2012, 07:12:34 »
Which server Unique and Horst are playing?  ;D

Seems like a challenge for me.  8)
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Offline Horstpetersens

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #326 on: 16-12-2012, 07:12:59 »
guess

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #327 on: 16-12-2012, 14:12:08 »
The server with Bots thats the only reason they get high scores :P

Offline Butcher

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #328 on: 02-01-2013, 15:01:56 »
May god forgive me pushing up this thread again, but I have some tank related questions for which I don´t want to open yet another thread.

1) Wasn´t it planned to improve the field of view of the Lee/Grant and Panzer IV?
   a) In the Grant I can´t see much and I´m easily flanked because I don´t notice the enemy atm.
   b) Driving the Panzer IV, I can´t see what´s behind me using ctrl. The cupola blocks my view. Can´t you
      put the center of view ON TOP of the cupola?

2) Are you planning to increase the frontal armour of the Jagdpanzer IV and especially Hetzer in the next
    patch? We have Shermans taking 75mm hits, even without range modifier.
   a) Yet the Hetzer can´t even deflect 57mm or even 75mm hits, although having very effective frontal
       armour. The real vehicle could even bounce 76mm shells at times.
   b) Jagdpanzer IV has been killed with one shot by 76mm armed Shermans and Bazookas several times,
      despite having similar armour protection to the Panther.

3) Most of the action takes place on the 128 player server. Are you planning to increase the vehicle
    loadout for maps in the future - if it´s possible without slowing the performance? I see a lot of people
    (often 5+ per team) waiting for vehicles in the mainbase. I think adding some vehicles could make the
    situation better. Of course infantry should still be common - but Eastern Front would be cool to have
    (one or two!) tank maps specifically designed for 100+ players.
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Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #329 on: 02-01-2013, 18:01:47 »
I'll add the Stuart to the list of tanks it's hard to see with ctrl free look, and the M11/39. Unless it's an engine issue I don't see why tanks with a hull-mounted gun need their vision nerfed.
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