Author Topic: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45  (Read 22915 times)

Offline x4fun ODIUM

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
    • www.762-ranking.de
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #270 on: 17-10-2012, 23:10:06 »
The question is how much realism do you wish to sacrifice?
All we are here to say is that in our opinion, 2.46 should move into the direction of more realism again.

I am no "one shot one kill" fanatic. Yes, some (!) rounds bouncing off is fine, duds (commentary of one Dev ingame) and shot deviation is fine. But not utter surrealism. Not like in that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxaQrr4ZVKM&feature=youtu.be

The fact that so many people (not only 5) keep taking the time and energy to try and change (maybe only move) your opinion on that matter in thread after thread only shows how important FH2 is to them. That should make you guys happy, try and be constructive with them. :)
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline Musti

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.734
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #271 on: 17-10-2012, 23:10:06 »
Musti, please stay a bit more constructive.  :-\
Tried that, twice, didn't work. I can't be bothered to write walls of text.
WARNING!
Assholes are closer than they appear!

Offline LuckyOne

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.707
  • Purple Heart Collector
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #272 on: 18-10-2012, 00:10:28 »
Guess which one I'd pick?

Guess which game would they pick.

Hint: It's not an obscure mod for a 7 year old game with crappy physics, almost no destruction and silly looking ragdolls...  ::)
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline RAnDOOm

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.406
  • Portugal - Surfs Paradise in Europe
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #273 on: 18-10-2012, 00:10:23 »
Just a headsup/offtopic.

Realistically speaking, FH2 will not get that many new players. Thats a fact that we all have to accept.

A big percentage of the existing players are asking to get one specific feature being reverted to what it was before.

In order not to lose anymore players ( which is already happening since 2.45  ) some fast changes must be made, particularly in the 2.45 anglemod/tank system .

Offline hitm4k3r

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1.123
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #274 on: 18-10-2012, 01:10:54 »
Randoom, you hit it on spot.

@Natty: I agree with you on the fact that this system of battle communication can be fun in other games.
I never claimed something different. But it doesn't work for FH2. If you want to keep the mod alive, make it unique and not like every other average FPS.
Wich game would you choose if BF3 and FH2 would have the same gameplay? The most people will certainly take BF3 because of the newer technology and the better graphixxxxxx. Only a few will take FH2, because of the scenary. And if they see that it plays like BF3 or CoD they won't stay long. Many people complaining here are the playing part of the core community. This speaks for itself.

Offline Kwiot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 793
  • POLISH ACE
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #275 on: 18-10-2012, 02:10:01 »
Marder I cant shoot Sherman frontally on OP. Goodwood in distance less than 30 m... And Sherman killed me with HE... Now we have to flank Allied tank to have any chance with getting it, but of course you still shouldn't be sure that you willl get him... Pathethic!

Offline x4fun ODIUM

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
    • www.762-ranking.de
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #276 on: 18-10-2012, 02:10:24 »
[...] it doesn't work for FH2. If you want to keep the mod alive, make it unique and not like every other average FPS. [...]
+1

I just got this reply from !@! Cmoi SuperC, one of the Team Cont@ct clan leaders:

"[...]the majority of the team has gone on red orchestra 2.[...]"

Those guys were no less fanatic FH2'ers than we [762] guys. It makes me sad to see them leave.
Kind Regards / MfG
x4fun I<ODIUM>I


Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #277 on: 18-10-2012, 03:10:16 »
a few things you need to understand when trying to convince Natty.
Natty doesn't give a rat's ass about 'realism' so the argument that something is more realistic and what players want is fallacy to him, unless it can be justified in gameplay terms.

This poll should have served that purpose in showing that players prefer 2.45, but the questions were framed in a way that Natty feels is biased towards reverting to 2.45, so that opportunity's lost.

Secondly, Natty doesn't really care for extending the life of FH2 - He doesn't believe there 'extension' exists for the mod.

So sadly, gents, you need to, excuse the Punn, play HIS game... Speak in strictly gameplay terms if you want to sway him on logical grounds of gameplay advancement.

Think Spock of game development and try and make your points stick.

Offline kingtiger1891

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #278 on: 18-10-2012, 04:10:02 »
a few things you need to understand when trying to convince Natty.
After a thread get locked by some "learn to shoot" crap,  a poll get locked because an unwanted option is leading by a mile, it's hard for me to understand why u still need to "convince".


So sadly, gents, you need to, excuse the Punn, play HIS game...
No, not really. The damage modifier can be totally server side modified. I talk to a 762 admin about this earlier and the reply is:" We'll let the devs change that". But it doesn't seems to me the devs have little bit intention of changing.

Offline Horstpetersens

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #279 on: 18-10-2012, 06:10:44 »
a few things you need to understand when trying to convince Natty.
Natty doesn't give a rat's ass about 'realism' so the argument that something is more realistic and what players want is fallacy to him, unless it can be justified in gameplay terms.

Secondly, Natty doesn't really care for extending the life of FH2 - He doesn't believe there 'extension' exists for the mod.

So sadly, gents, you need to, excuse the Punn, play HIS game...
No the players don't need to play his game.
There are other games.

FH2 is not for everybody. It's a more mature community.
If this game will be like bf3 then it looses.
Sry for my harsh words but i don't want to see a great mod to get ruined.
If you want to kill the mod, keep on going. and think about why FH0.7 is still played.
« Last Edit: 18-10-2012, 06:10:21 by Horstpetersens »

Offline Zoologic

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4.141
  • In FH Since 0.67
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #280 on: 18-10-2012, 06:10:30 »
I lost all hope with Natty.
Do other devs have similar view with him?

We are not talking about 1S1K anymore, but a reasonable decrease in damage system (thus prolonging tank battles). We want it somewhat realistic, Tiger and Panther should feel powerful, and Sherman Firefly's cannon should be the Superkitty's kryptonite. The tank combat in 2.45 is an unexpected result, we have to admit that it is a problem first, before we can stop arguing.

Why not make Citroen CV survives 7.92 mm altogether? So we can chat while driving through a beautiful French coastal town?

Offline Erwin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 258
  • Admin of CMP-Gaming
    • View Profile
    • Collaborative Multiplayer Gaming
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #281 on: 18-10-2012, 07:10:18 »
So if this is about making gameplay a lot of fun, then I would suggest following things:

- Give Stuka and bombers 30 bombs.
- Also give fighter 20 bombs.
- Make tanks go faster.
- Engineer should have 4 expacks.
- Make Medic as default kit with Mp40.
- Put Stg44 as spawnable to all maps.
- More Ammoboxes.
- Remove recoil on smgs.
- Remove delaying animation between weapon switchs.

Here you go, good old BF1942 Vanilla which has so damn fun!

If we get serious again,

You say you're trying to bring fun element for tankers. This thread clearly shows you're wrong. %90 people here loves to play with tanks and nobody is happy right now. If you want to make infantry gameplay much more tank free(they can't be bothered by tanks right?) then make CoD style maps and let them play infantry only.
- It's still up!
- No it ain't.

Offline Natty

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.170
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #282 on: 18-10-2012, 07:10:37 »
Secondly, Natty doesn't really care for extending the life of FH2 - He doesn't believe there 'extension' exists for the mod.

wow...way to publicly lie to make me look bad  ::) not the best move there...

we're looking in to the tank stuff, but we're a small team and have other things to do also. Just because 20 people writes enthusiatically in a thread doesnt mean we need to "revert" to anything (which FYI isnt technically possible anyway).
We'll update the tank system a bit for sure, but for 7 years our tank system has relied primarily on tables and math, and not experience. That's the cause for all the weird stuff happening. The system has too many variables basically. Which disallows us to experience-tune it easily. Anyone who ever worked with a software system knows that there is a threshold where too many variables just makes the system uncontrollable - if you havent then you shouldnt pretend to know about it just because you watched some ww2 documentaries and claim to "know" how tank battles should be like.

I dont like tanking either in 2.45, I didnt in 2.4 either but it was a bit better, yes. 2.3 and older patches were horrible, it wasnt designed for the current gaming generation, it was 5 years too late.
It's 2012 now, gamers - not you 20 guys here, but all the rest, we do have a few thousand active playernames in fh2 - want different things now. We cant make all you 20 guys happy and screw the others, at the same time we cant make all them happy and screw you either.

So: before we go legacy with FH2 there will be a revamp of armor battle, indeed, and it will be as "realistic" as possible but without sacrificing fundmental game play functionality. That means, consistency, communication (as in; the game telling the player what he should do, what tank hurts which tank etc) and balance.

the "allies get more tank" is not happening. That's a poor balance solution. Fail to make balanced tank battles and you just spawn 4 more tanks for one team? no no.... the PvP fight need to be balanced. rock-paper-scissor is the core, we arent changing the core of battlefield, it would be a death sentence.

so thx for the enthusiastic tank feedback, we'll see what happens with the system, and hope you'll like whatever we do with it.

Offline LuckyOne

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.707
  • Purple Heart Collector
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #283 on: 18-10-2012, 09:10:51 »
^ Well I guess that's better than nothing. Thank you for the reply.

And no we shouldn't insult Natty by saying that he doesn't care about prolonging the life of FH 2, after he has done all that work in 2.4 and 2.45 (just look at how many maps he touched up!).

But what we can say is that his view of how to prolong the life of FH2 differs from ours. While we believe in attracting a specific audience that is looking for a "realistic" WW II shooter, he believes the solution is in attracting a more general audience of "casuals", and peope who enjoy "good" (and not necessary "realistic" gameplay).

The solution lies, as always, probably somewhere in between. We should aim to keep the "core audience" but at the same time attract new people from the wast numbers of "casual" gamers.

Note that I use the term "casual" in the lack of a better word. It's just a term to describe gamers with different views on games than us "WW II addicts".
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #284 on: 18-10-2012, 09:10:48 »
Sorry, Natty. Wasn't trying to paint you bad.
But you do recall saying that the mod ends after Russian front

I just wanted the discussion to be framed more in terms of how 2.45 tank system worked for gameplay, not realism, which I think is the cause of the impasse.

Sorry if I misrepresented you.