Author Topic: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45  (Read 23117 times)

Offline Erwin

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #225 on: 12-10-2012, 13:10:47 »
I remember the days of Fh 0.7 I was just getting a hold of Panther whenever available and start driving all around the map with road kills. Didn't even need to stop for aim. I could do that with Firefly as well. Even owning KTs 1v1. That tanking system was quite good.

However, I really disliked 2.45 tanking system at first, really. Hated it.

After playing for a while, I started discovering weak spots on every tank(which a good tanker always will) and started dominating Allied tanks. Even a buggy piece-of-shit Cromwell cannot stand against me. I 1S1K Pershing's with my KT and other tanks doesn't even bother me.  ;D

But still I want a system like 2.4 and more Allied tanks to compensate Axis superiority.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #226 on: 12-10-2012, 14:10:30 »
But still I want a system like 2.4 and more Allied tanks to compensate Axis superiority.
Bingo.

1) I honestly think we should get rid of the range modifier. I know the game is scaled but the tank combat is surreal. Like Shitmaker mentioned in a previous post there are situations where your enemy is on mid range (100-200 metres) and you don´t want to shoot, because you know he will get away. So you try to come closer.

Allied tanks have a big advantage in the current tank system, because their most common tank - the Sherman - can now take german tanks, that have better firepower and frontal armor, head on. Before that the Sherman had to be used with caution against heavier german tanks. This strategic element is missing in FH 2.45.

This is one mayor point! On a certain range serveral tanks, which shouldnt FEEL or BE equal, get equal.
This pretty much summs it up.

2) Tank hunters and anti tank guns are in a serious disadvantage in the current state. Their ambush effect (even though you said you would like to make all at guns movable) is of no use. The target will just drive away or find you and pump HE ammunition into your gun, ignoring the fact that the tank got ambushed.

I just think FH2 lost it´s special charme, the special feeling, with the new tank system. Now it´s just ordinary tanking, like in every other game. Nothing special except nice shiny skins and different ammunition types.

There is so much negative feedback on the tanking system, it makes me sad.
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Offline djinn

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #227 on: 12-10-2012, 14:10:59 »
Too right... More realistic tank damage, and more Allied tanks.

The key word here is 'MORE-realistic', because you can't get it exact to realism.
Otherwise we'd need too many allied tanks in what is mostly a scaled map. Would work in ratios, would work for damage, won't work for map. 

So still goes back to the fine-balancing of damage system vs. ratios.

Offline Musti

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #228 on: 12-10-2012, 18:10:58 »
I still think what we really need is to go back to 2.4 tanking system, and re-balance some of the tanks damage, and spawn times. I'd say give 76mm gun ability to 1-shot KT and whatnot, shorten spawn time of German tanks to balance out additional power and here we go: powerful guns are powerful, German tanks will feel "weaker" but they will spawn quicker so the maps are balanced.
I know that sounds a bit like "mirror balancing", but you know, its not Normandy anymore with 75mm Shermans all over the place, bigger guns arrived, the rules have changed. I think it would make tanks "feel" right, while still keeping differences between the sides.
And It would make Bulge just a little bit different from Norm. We like diversity right?
I honestly think we should get rid of the range modifier. I know the game is scaled but the tank combat is surreal. Like Shitmaker mentioned in a previous post there are situations where your enemy is on mid range (100-200 metres) and you don´t want to shoot, because you know he will get away. So you try to come closer.
Agree, range modifier is especially awesome on NA, there's nothing better than tanks shooting at each other for 5 years, until one of them decides to run away when it finally starts smoking, fuuuuuuuuuun!(Grant vs Pz3 on Gazala, or Alam Halfa, wonderful)
« Last Edit: 12-10-2012, 19:10:49 by Musti »
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Offline Paythoss

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #229 on: 12-10-2012, 20:10:52 »
Yeah ... nothing is better then waste almost half of ammo from M3 Stuart to side armor of ONE Pz III from distance below 500 m  ;D
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Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #230 on: 13-10-2012, 09:10:35 »
I'm still undecided on the new tanking system. Tank battles generally last longer now, which I think is definitely a good thing, and I don't mind the occasional weirdness of kill shots leaving a bit of health left along with the occasional shot bouncing off or doing very little damage. The distinction I think has to be made there is that it's not realistic, but it is like an analogy for realism. In real life there were so many variables and the same shot hitting the same area a thousand times won't produce the same result every time. I also like that now in 2.45, you spend a fair bit of time when you're driving a tank retreating to repair or get more ammo.

One thing I dislike about the changes is it seems like a lot of tanks aren't as "scary" as they should be. A Panther tank should be a fucking big deal to encounter, and your team should put great effort into destroying it, but now it's just a bit like "Oh you're going on holiday to the Farmhouse flag are you? Have a nice trip, I'll see ya when you get back, and by the way, there's a Panther there". I remember in FH1, seeing a KT or just a regular Tiger was a legitimate OH SHIT moment, but it isn't really the case anymore. Similarly, the Allies of course have some vehicles that should be like this too, such as the Valentine on some maps feeling more like a fat Crusader than a heavy tank, and the M36 Jackson (especially now with no HVAP) is just sort of a nuisance, like a fly that needs to be swatted instead of a tank destroyer that can blow up anything you have from any range, and fuck up whole squads at once with 90mm HE shells. I'll put it this way: before 2.45 some vehicles (King Tiger, Tiger, Churchill, etc.) felt like bosses in an adventure game, where you really had to be on top of your game and work together to defeat. Now they feel like a turtle to jump on.

And I know I spam this in every tank thread, but I would really like to see tanker kits on more maps! We need them!

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Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #231 on: 13-10-2012, 12:10:55 »
I also think the current range modifier has been a horrible addition, someone descibed the tank battles as surreal. That is really the inly word I can comeup with with after playing 2.45 for a while.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #232 on: 13-10-2012, 13:10:29 »
And I know I spam this in every tank thread, but I would really like to see tanker kits on more maps! We need them!

Hell yeah! With berets for Brits and tank helmets for the Yanks!
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline Kwiot

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #233 on: 13-10-2012, 15:10:06 »
And I know I spam this in every tank thread, but I would really like to see tanker kits on more maps! We need them!

Hell yeah! With berets for Brits and tank helmets for the Yanks!

And these special caps for Germans of course!!!  8)

Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #234 on: 14-10-2012, 00:10:57 »
Haven't played tank vs tank in FH2 for quite some time because of this, tried it again today at Villers. A tiger shot at my firefly frontally, my health bar was not even red. I return fire to its ass, repeat, ASS, the 75mm short barrel can do significant damage to that part now and I fail to one shot it with firefly. Later I encontered a panther frontally, put a shell on its mantlet, panther just on fire. Looks like everything I know about FH2 tanking had been changed (to an absurd way).

Quit again after this round.

Offline Paythoss

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #235 on: 14-10-2012, 10:10:30 »
"Learn to Aim" ... why when I see that words , I have in My mind that meme ...

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #236 on: 14-10-2012, 14:10:06 »
You expect tanks to blow up in certain situations, however, that is simply not the case anymore. It has nothing to do with bugs, or angle mod or aiming, it is simply a case of the devs changing it. It only seems "absurd" because you are used to the older damage system, since neither of them were realistic or simulation detailed.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #237 on: 14-10-2012, 16:10:52 »
With other words you mean "Get used to it!" That´s not really a better answer than "Learn to aim!" or "That feedback isn´t representative!".

I will never get used to the new tanking system, although bailing and not getting a virtual death is funny for me when I cowardly jump out of my tank. From the following pictures, none of the guys outsmarting/outplaying/ambushing my Sherman got a single kill.



Multiple Bazooka hits doing next to no damage, 3rd hit got me burning and I bailed.



Panther shooting me from 20 metres far away? No problem, bail and get into the trench. My enemy will be satisfied knowing he just didn´t get points but prevented a Sherman from spawning within the next 60 seconds.


An 88 on cobra hitting 2 Shermans frontally... guess who died? Oh btw. I had time to bail - jsut in case he would get off another shot.
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Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #238 on: 14-10-2012, 17:10:22 »
Afaik you still get points for shooting a bailed tank since the last patch so I'm fine with that... But I don't like the stupid situations where clearly the winner should have been the sneaky bastard who managed to get behind the tank.
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Offline |7th|Nighthawk

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Re: Powerful Tanks Become Vulnerable in 2.45
« Reply #239 on: 14-10-2012, 17:10:13 »
The FlaK18s are always easy to shell with HEs but they in return cannot defend themselves properly with their AP shells.
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