Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti

[Zoologic]

The ban of sheik nevertheless, I agree on the sense that he swore a couple of times. If it is already stated in 762 as an effective rule (at the time he played), then the admin has full rights to enforce it and explain Sheik's position, regardless of what he thinks about the rule.


Now, about the rule itself:

I guess people who get killed repeatedly at their mainbase have completely forgotten about smokes. I smoked a lot of places (esp. spawn points, which people seems to memorize), and it is effective. Artillery will still rain down their shells at your position, but snipers and sniping tankers from outside ABC lines won't be much of a problem anymore. Enforce the rules, people will get into argument and get less creative.

Well, in Counter-Strike (another game, yes... the game that you play, not role-play), sometimes I joined in a raped and fucked-up team for the entire map. In some of the rounds, we got based raped, I experienced this a lot as a terrorist team in the classic de_dust. Being a cannon fodder? Because somebody has got to do it. If you want a proof of real skills, please never look at stats, join a tournament and see real skills there. Idiots pay attention too much on K/D stats and ranks, some players just needs to grow real penis up and stop looking at their e-penis.

Statwhores? Statwhores will complain a lot in that situation, since the server is ranked, their awards will be ruined, and their chance to join a glory-seeking "l33t" clans will fade away. K/D ratios will go down because we are constantly losing, despite managing to score more kills.

So who argued that this rule of "don't attack uncap" prevents statwhores? That's is like completely the opposite. This rule will surely protect statwhores, save their K/D ratios by preventing their death at the hands of encircled back-capping rambos.

It is up to the caretakers of 762 though... they know their players and they know what they want. But if you ask for our opinions, we gave what you asked. Thank you guys.

[Knallkopp_02]

@Slayer,

no, it is not the goal to have a good k/d, its to help your team and mostly have fun with the game and your teammates.

@ajappat,

as i told you, i know maybe 3 good planefighters who could destroy every stationary wapon without a chance to kill them. And after this they are destroying the vehicles. If you have ghot these 3 players in 1 team, you have got no chance to leave your base.  I remember 1 fight, one of them had a k/d of 128/0, and he is no cheater.

[ajappat]

@ajappat,

as i told you, i know maybe 3 good planefighters who could destroy every stationary wapon without a chance to kill them. And after this they are destroying the vehicles. If you have ghot these 3 players in 1 team, you have got no chance to leave your base.  I remember 1 fight, one of them had a k/d of 128/0, and he is no cheater.

But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

[LuckyOne]

But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

Exactly, and since it's main, there is always someone nearby to gun down those pesky planes. Flying into mainbase is looking for trouble, except on a few maps that lack proper defenses.

[hitm4k3r]

But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

Exactly, and since it's main, there is always someone nearby to gun down those pesky planes. Flying into mainbase is looking for trouble, except on a few maps that lack proper defenses.

As much as I would like to see this rule removed too on 762 and allow planes to attack everthing, than more I have to agree witch Knallkopp on the fact that we have players who use the planes whenever possible anyway. Stationary weapons are not quiet effective in FH2, as the good players know where they are. With players like Unique the 88 and Paks at Op. Goodwood get totaly useless. The same affacts the AA guns in mainbases. If we get more mobile AA on the maps I could agree with you - but currently the few stationary AA guns get smashed by the pilots anyway.

@Zoologic: I guess, that most people here who argue for the Anti baserape rule, know how to use smoke. The big problem is, that you won't be able to select your smoke and finaly use it, if I catch you up with my team in your mainbase. I can kill people the second they spawn on many maps if not all - there are nice little "clitches", trust me. We had locked the german players into their base on St.Vith and could have easily killed everything that moves right after spawning in a match some days ago. The german players just got frustrated and asked the admins to skip the map. Sidi Bou has the same problem. Once the American team is cought in the base you haven't a single chance to get out. Firing into the base - no problem.

That is a problem that many maps suffer from atm. There is only one base and the way out of the base is too narrow and too open without enough cover. Easy three examples are St. Vith, Sidi Bou, Villers, Totalize, Goodwood and Cobra. The above mentioned points are the reason, why the counter attack on Cobra doesn't work (besides the too weak german guns). The space on the maps is limited and that you can't see something doesn't mean that you can't shoot it. I would like to make an experiment and play on day without a single rule. I know how this will end 

[Knallkopp_02]

@ajappat,

as i told you, i know maybe 3 good planefighters who could destroy every stationary wapon without a chance to kill them. And after this they are destroying the vehicles. If you have ghot these 3 players in 1 team, you have got no chance to leave your base.  I remember 1 fight, one of them had a k/d of 128/0, and he is no cheater.

But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

These 3 Players i talked about are friends of me and i was in their clan. There are many more in BF2 world i think. And clanmates mostly want to play together.

[Slayer]

@Slayer,

no, it is not the goal to have a good k/d, its to help your team and mostly have fun with the game and your teammates.

Ah, OK, so we agree on what the goal of FH2 is? Then why bring up k/d ratios in your argument?

[Dukat]

We introduced the rule against attacking crossed out flags on 762 after SEVERAL requests by players and admins of 762 (on a personal note it was NOT my idea) to achieve 2 things:

A) reduce spawnraping for score.
B) make the maps play out as intended by the Devs.
(by gently forcing players onto the paths of the flag succession devised by the Developers).

Seen as now, the rule seems to cause more problems than it solves.

- Players and sometimes even admins don't get when flags switch because they don't check the map.
- Admins are confused because they do not know when exactly to kick for attacking uncaps - which always has to be a matter of personal decision.

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Make a rule against spawn raping instead of a rule against attacking red crossed flags.

solves A) and B).

Violation would be if somebody is camping a spawn point of the enemy for the solely purpose of spawnraping enemies without any attempt to actually take a flag. Thus they should not camp a single spawnpoint longer then 3 spawnwaves.

That was a rule once applied to the WOLF Forgotten Hope 1 server for many years, and it helped out sorting the spawnrapers. It gave admin an instrument to punish those that were going up into the attic of a barn where all the enemies would spawn and mow them down with a MG42 right away when spawning.

If somebody would go to a red crossed flag in FH2 and camp an uncappable flag area, killing enemies that spawn for several waves, without moving or capping the flag, you could punish him for spawnraping. Which, of course is always at descretion of the dealing admin.

But the current rules creates confusion, especially when the flags turn and fall quickly without warning. In the end it is enough tactical punishment for teams attacking uncap flags by doing so. It draws manpower from the real hotspots to areas where their harm is less. They are being bypassed and excluded from the real action.

But people will only have to learn to consider their tactical situation properly. They can do that.

[sheikyerbouti]

 Wow !!!
 I deserve 6 pages of argument about Odium being full of shit. this makes me feel very special, BTW Screw you Odium for making false accusation (put that in your translator and smoke it)

 Map was Falaise 64, playing as a German for the first time since patch 2.45

 I did say bullshit to Odium but only in response to him making false accusations against me on the 762 server. of note: this happened in a private squad only after I publicly chatted in response to several others publicly complaining about Odiums apparently self created rules.

 The rules as stated on 762 server load screen say to not attack uncap or abc lines

 So anyways, I said in public chat that  :Dumb rules are dumb rules:  when he publicly chastised a number of other people for attacking the german team on Falaise pocket 64

 After my one and only posting, Odium (never heard of him before) invited me to a private squad and started to yell at me in German.

 In Squad chat I wrote  :nein sprechen Deutsche:, so he then switched to crappy english and kept yelling at me in heavily accented and not easily understood English accusing me of breaking rules (which i did not as I was only on the server for about 5-10 minutes tops and i was playing on his team).

 i told him he was telling bullshit over my microphone, which apparently made him madder, so he started off on some thing about how he makes the rules and it is up to him to decide. he was cursing in german and not making himself clearly understandable.

 i said only to him once more that his accusation was bullshit, then quit his private squad and joined the other team. The sides were balanced so i was not causing an imbalance. I just wanted to play on a Saturday night instead of get yelled at by some Jerry who was up past his bedtime. This occurred around 830pm Pacific (2030 PST)


 All of a sudden, I see a massive green text saying something in German (!B sheik  spielacheren auf HSlan)

and then i read a PB message saying i was kicked for unnecessary teamkilling

 
 I can deal with being punished for something that I actually did wrong but getting banned by some teenager because he doesnt speak or understand English correctly is very heavy handed and reflects very poorly of his server community. I like 762, have thousands of hours on it since the server popped up but if Odium is any reflection of the administration of said server, i will never darken that servers doors again.
 


 Seeing that the Fh2 community is marginal at best, I must unfortunately say goodbye to the community at large. With less than a handful of occupied server to choose from I will continue to patronize HSlan and WaW but seeing they are not always occupied, I will infortunately not be around to have as much fun with this game as I used to.

 Sheikyerbouti bids a fond adieu, farewell, auf wiedersehen, Goodbye...

 Goodbye...

 Goodbye...

 Goodbye...

 (please imagine lyrics as being sung by a bunch of overly cheery, plump kids being raised by a nanny in Switzerland)

p.s. is it wrong to still have a crush on such a beautiful actress in such a shitty movie

[Jimi Hendrix]

 This debate is getting good....

[Zoologic]

Finally 

So Sheik, are you attacking uncaps or not? What were you doing then?

LOL, you make it sounds very very bad.

[[130.Pz]S.Lainer]

  Ahh finally!  After checking this retarded thread about a dozen times and wasting valuable minutes of my life that I will never get back...PAYDAY!

[Knallkopp_02]

@Slayer,

no, it is not the goal to have a good k/d, its to help your team and mostly have fun with the game and your teammates.

Ah, OK, so we agree on what the goal of FH2 is? Then why bring up k/d ratios in your argument?

It is only an example in witch way player can turn a good game into a bad one if the player is attacking spawnpoints, mainbases, destroy all assets in main... if there are no rules to stop this. For his team it is good, but for the other one it is bad. I think everyone wants to have fun with the game. But with such players it cant be good in my opinion. One team has got all assets, the other not because of permanant bombing the assets into heaven.

@sheikyerbouti

-> and then i read a PB message saying i was kicked for unnecessary teamkilling

this is the standart text from PB. This text would be shown by default.


Regards

[:| Hi]

On the rule of planes, I too have been playing since 2009, and never have we had a problem with planes attacking uncaps, or camping of uncaps.

I have devoted many hours to WOLF, WaW (Public), and ocassionally HSLAN, and never have I seen a problem with it.

If it happens, people adapt. Smoke gets thrown, people set up MGs and gun down planes (Believe me, its happened and quite efficiently at that) others fan out and go around killing the campers and then head out for the flag.


For instance, Operation Totalize. Brits/Canucks/What have you, generally get pushed back to their main.

The 109s/190s (w/e they are now) will strafe the allied main, but are often too busy avoiding AA from: AA gun, M4 turrets, LMGs, Pickup MGs), not to mention the planes that spawn in and manage to take off.

Another factor to take into account is personal code of those people, I have only seen a handful of pilots camp the mains, and even then they will stop after a few runs because the rest of the team gets bored.

[x4fun ODIUM]

Okay, let me start this slow. Thank you for the civilised reply.
This 6 pages are not about you or me being "full of shit". It's about a pracitability of rules.
But I did not expect you to read and try to understand even the first post. Please try again.

A) "it is not in our rules not to attack crossed out flags right now. Odium lies!" Hmm..let's see:



B) Sure it was on Falaise. Where else?

C) There is a difference in between yelling and telling forcefully. People in my teamspeak at that time can tell. When I would yell at you to insult you, I'd make sure you understood my insults. If. So no swearing in german. But I guess the stereotype of the angry german kid is just so good, it has to be used over and over. Even where it does not fit.

D) I am sorry for not recognizing you speaking English only. I switched as soon as I did.

E) Sorry for my crappy English enounciation, dear friend.
I have been trying to improve it for 14 years now. I will work on that.

F) It is not my problem you are not able to listen to an explanaition that you yourself asked for 2 minutes ago. It would have taken you about 30 seconds. If your attention can't be held for that long without exclaiming "Bullshit, Bullshit" like a 3-year-old immune to arguments, I am dearly sorry for you.

G) Mathematics might not be your strong side, but seriously, "thousands of hours on it" does not equal 60 hours of playing on 762. It just does not. Your played time on 762:
http://www.762-ranking.de/fh2stats/?page=playerstats&pid=30589777&ln=en&l=
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To all readers BUT sheikyerbouti: thanks for discussing this, please keep voting, this thread indeed is about the crossed out flags rule on 762. We are quite sure that we would like to keep the rule against attacking mainbases and ABC lines at the moment.