Poll

Remove or keep crossed flag rule on 762 servers?

Remove
55 (76.4%)
Keep
17 (23.6%)

Total Members Voted: 71

Voting closed: 06-08-2012, 20:08:45

Author Topic: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti  (Read 7578 times)

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Only fordid attacks against main bases. Aerial attacks are IMHO fine since you have the tools to take out planes but tanks camping outside the main or artillerying the main is not fair game. Its easier to repair an AA gun and take out the plane than it is to repair an AT-gun and take out a tank just outside your base.

Fortunately many maps have such wide ABC lines drawn on them that the enemy has less chance to actually effectively "camp" the main. Anything outside the ABC lines is just fair game imho, crossed-out-flags or not.

Offline Knallkopp_02

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I think you don't understand the problem, but tell me why it is completely irrelevant to FH2 to baserape the opponent base.

I am thirsty for knowledge, maybe you could explain.

Offline ajappat

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I think you don't understand the problem, but tell me why it is completely irrelevant to FH2 to baserape the opponent base.

I am thirsty for knowledge, maybe you could explain.
Exactly what problem? Problem that you got baseraped in battlefield 2?

Got similar experience in FH2 you could share with us? Baserape is against rules atleast on hslan an 762, the 2 most common server. Hslan prohibits shooting directly to vehicle and player spawns, while 762 prohibits shooting behind ABC line. If the shooting behind ABC line rule was taken out on 762, they would probably still not allow shooting into base.

Offline Ciupita

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By any means ajappat, share it. That is why I asked.

[...]
ABC line is so drawn that you cant move to a position where you could rape the mainbase, nothing else. Its not ment to protect you all the way.
[...]

Irish: If you cannot shoot into the spawns when you stand outside ABCs: please think of a Tiger standing on the ABC of the Canadian base (western half of it) on Totalize. Can he hit players just getting into the M10 or the Churchill? I'd say so. We wanted the people at least to have a chance of getting in their vehicles before being shot. :)

But mainly this thread is about the crossed out flags that switch.

Yeah, there is a difference between main base and crossed out flags... Main base raping is pure shit and should not be allowed, crossed out flags on the other hand.. yeah, remove the rule. You can still have "don't attack/shoot at main base" rule.

Offline LuckyOne

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Even if mainbase attack was allowed you often have the tools to fight it off. On most maps there are either a few AA or AT guns to help you fend off the attackers. But mostly enemies have no need to go there... If they do you're doing something wrong.

Attacking temporary uncaps/crossed out flags should be allowed. After all it's war and no place is safe in war. The enemy could be anywhere at any time. If he wants to lay an ambush near an uncap then so be it. However maybe auto spawn blocking zone should be widened, so you don't spawn directly in front of an enemy if he's near the spawn point, as opposed to standing on the spawn point as it is now.
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

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I say remove rule on crossed flags (keeping rule on mainbases of course). It creates strange situations where you are told by an admin to get out of an crossed flag when you went there when it still was capturable. Sometimes running with your back from the enemy. If a team wants to win they sometime or later have to go to the open flag.

Offline IrishReloaded

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Quote
Irish: If you cannot shoot into the spawns when you stand outside ABCs: please think of a Tiger standing on the ABC of the Canadian base (western half of it) on Totalize. Can he hit players just getting into the M10 or the Churchill? I'd say so. We wanted the people at least to have a chance of getting in their vehicles before being shot.

Directly Raping of Mainbase is not good, but you and your follow admins seem to spread out the Mainbase till the end of the ABC line which is crap. In addition you have several - strong - at guns spread out in the base, further - espessially on Totalize 3 bofors - aa guns which clean the air.
Then there is a difference between "nice" and " usefull" Not everything that is usefull is nice - and still it is a wargame. Its not ment to be nice. Espessially I dislike the part "dont shot here" as this was not the fact in any war.

Quote
Question to you IrishReloaded,

do you like to be killed if you are in your mainbase if you are jumping into a plane or a tank, or something else?
I dont like getting killed in the game at any place - no matter if at front or in base. If I get killed I try something different, and do not run to the same position again and again. If the base or the last flag is raped I try to sneak out, or I join a squad which is outside this deathfull position. Finding a solution to the problem is much more satisfying then crying imo.

The following statement may sound harsh but its fact.
If a team is getting raped inside their base or their flag its almost always this teams fault, cause they simply sucked.

ABC line fire in: yes
ABC drive in : no, not possible
Attack uncaps: yes
Kill ppl at uncap spawm: yes, they can change spawmpoint or if enemy blocks spawmpoint you spawm automaticly somewhere else.
Fire mainbase: for me yes but for the will of the game no.
But, mainbase =/= abc line. Mainbase is only for me the planquadrat where the Mainbase symbol is.


so and now some formula 1 and beer - see you later on the battlefield
edit: if all servers would use official rules ect we would not have this discussion
« Last Edit: 29-07-2012, 12:07:49 by IrishReloaded »

Offline Ts4EVER

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IMO if oyu can do something ingame then just assume that the devs want you to be able to do it. They don't want you to be able to drive into the enemy mainbase, so they place abc areas. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be able to shoot into them. Of course on most maps there will be hills or buildings placed in front of it.

Offline Capten_C

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How many times have 99% of players goten into the capzone of a cappable flag, only for it to become a crossed out uncap as some rogue enemy squad somewhere backcaps a flag.  >:(

What do you do then? Sprint for 5 minutes wasting your gametime evading the enemies wrath back to the nearest cappable? Or stay and FIGHT like you do in most first person shooter games?

Or obey ze rulez and suicide? Losing your team valuable tickets?

REMOVE PLEASE!
  ;)

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Offline Smiles

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Remove, ridiculous rule as explained by capten c. What do you want me to do? Suicide because a flag has been made uncap? Ridiculous.
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Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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I hate when people are off attacking uncap flags, and it's a shame so many people support it. Though a lot of my complaints would be easily solved if FH2 adopted one of my beliefs, and that belief being that every flag on every 64-sized map should require at least 2 people to capture it. And the other main reason is that it's so vague and worded awkwardly in server rules, it's not nearly as clear as people seem to want to pretend it is.
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Offline pureperversions

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personaly my view is
the last flag should never be attackable by arty/ground forces unless you can cap it at that point
main bases never attackable by ground forces/arty
abc line is a line of no crossing, you can shoot freely past it

Offline Ronson

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Hello Odi, I agree it should be removed. Everything apart from an uncappable mainbase should be a fair target. C'est la guerre.

Some maps really require you to attack crossed-out flags if you want a total victory - I'm thinking especially of Brest and Siege of Tobruk (unless they've changed significantly in the new patch, haven't played them in 2.45). It is almost impossible to get the final flag on those maps unless you get people in the zone ready to attack before the flag unlocks. A few times on Brest I've seen SLs get kicked from the 762 server for skilfully infiltrating the last Axis base, ready to spawn their squad as soon as it unlocks for an exciting final assault. But without that tactic the map usually ends with 20mins of grind and spawnraping which only the Allied tankers enjoy.

Many years back on the Wolf FH1 server there was a rule that you were free to 'pre-cap' locked flags in a push map - you could get into position ready to atack flag #2 before flag #1 had fallen, but you weren't supposed to shoot enemies in the immediate cap area until the flag actually unlocked. That always seemed the best balance to me, but it was sometimes a real headache for admins to police. Overall I think the fewer rules the better - 'play fair' and 'don't be a dick' covers just about every situation, in my opinion ;)

But I also agree with Andrew that 2+ man cap zones should be the norm - have a lot of these been removed in 2.45?

Offline McCloskey

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Bullshit, operating near another uncap is called disrupting enemy supply lines and is a perfectly valid tactic. What monkey came up with this "rule"? No way I'm letting someone (an admin) restrict my movement around the map as to where I'm allowed to go, if the game actually allows me to go there. And usually it's not easy anyway, since there should be dozens of enemies around, ready to shoot me at sight - if there aren't, then too bad for the enemy team.

Offline hitm4k3r

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The problem I see with removing this rule is that some of the maps will clearly loose their charm. Best example is Hurtgen Forest. Simply camp with one single guy in Germeter the whole round and open up a squad if it becomes capable. The rest is for your imagination. I saw several matches ending like this and it is just boring to win or loose a match without fighting.
That a flag becomes crossed out and you are still there doesn't mean that you are forced to suicide or leave the fight. Most important point of this rules is to avoid excessive spawnrape on crossed out flags. Not everybody gets kicked because he kills someone on a crossed out flag. On Maps like St. Vith this is unavoidable for example, since you can fire from flag to flag.

What the most people tend to forget, is the quiet realistic tactic of retreat. But only a few people do this and the only tactic that seems to be known is to attack, attack and once more ... attack. Defending in FH2 isn't interesting for the majority - atleast that's my experience. When I am the SL I give my squad the order to fall back.

If the community thinks, that this rule should be removed, then I am fine with it - but my vote will be against. Attacking mainbases is a totaly different subject and I think that attacking the mainbase is forbidden on many servers speaks for itself.