Author Topic: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid  (Read 6770 times)

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #15 on: 25-07-2012, 08:07:15 »
...
So far, this blog post enlighten me about the point of attacking the Americans at Sidi Bou Zid and the Americans' relatively clumsy performance due to inexperience in combat. But still doesn't explain why they are eventually defeated by the Americans. As they make quite a gain after this battle.

As far as I know Rommel lost the advantage after the Allies managed to block his supply lines to Italy and the rest of the Axis territories in 42. That  finishes any army in the field. Also the numbers were very much against the Axis in NA.
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Offline [F|H]Taz18

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #16 on: 25-07-2012, 10:07:13 »
To this day, I have no clear picture about the progression of battle in North Africa, with the exception of early 1941 to the 2nd El Alamein and at the beginning of Supercharge.

I am simply not familiar with the maps of Tunisia and Algeria combat theatres. Where is Mareth Line? Where is Sidi Bou Zid. And after being beaten in Libya, where did Rommel draw his next fallback lines? Was it the Mareth Line? A simple big overall battle map of 1943 North Africa will be helpful to explain the whole idea of why each of those battles occurred. This picture by Wikipedia explains a little bit about the German gains at Sidi bou Zid and their progress at Kasserine:



It seems to me the Germans tried to pick the Americans first by attacking them before the British arrived. Is this a result of poor coordination between the US and British forces? Or simply because the Brits were busy resupplying themselves using the badly damaged Tripoli ports, and hence the delay of the push to Tunisia in time.

As we can see here, the Afrika Korps is pretty much pinned.



So far, this blog post enlighten me about the point of attacking the Americans at Sidi Bou Zid and the Americans' relatively clumsy performance due to inexperience in combat. But still doesn't explain why they are eventually defeated by the Americans. As they make quite a gain after this battle.

Take another look at that first map and you'll see Medenine, Mareth, and Gabes.

Supercharge didn't end until November and at that point the 8th Army was still in Egypt. After Supercharge, Rommel pulled back to El Agheila and Montgomery held off attacking for 3 weeks (beginning of December). Another defensive live was setup at Wadi Zemzem about 230 miles east of Tripoli (end of December) and again the attack was put off this time for a month (mid-January). Tripoli was finally taken on the 23rd and at the same time Rommel's forces pulled back to the Mareth Line. The 8th Army then built up at Medenine to assault the Mareth Line and on March 6th the Germans launched a counterattack against them. Operation Pugilist followed.

Think this is from the same blog your second map is from:



You are thinking of this in terms of the Germans only having 1 army in Tunisia, 5. Panzerarmee had been fighting a separate front in Tunisia since November. Sidi Bou Zid happened while the 8th Army was stuck on the far side of the Mareth Line with the Italian 1st Army (the remnants of Rommel's army) defending it.


And to be clear it was not the Americans that defeated them in Tunisia but a combination of British, Commonwealth, French, and American forces. Only about a quarter of the British 1st Army was American and the 8th Army was all British & Commonwealth.


...
So far, this blog post enlighten me about the point of attacking the Americans at Sidi Bou Zid and the Americans' relatively clumsy performance due to inexperience in combat. But still doesn't explain why they are eventually defeated by the Americans. As they make quite a gain after this battle.

As far as I know Rommel lost the advantage after the Allies managed to block his supply lines to Italy and the rest of the Axis territories in 42. That  finishes any army in the field. Also the numbers were very much against the Axis in NA.

From what I've read, the rail lines in the east of Libya and at the very least the port in Benghazi were in working condition quite soon after those areas were taken and even beyond expectations. Can't say about Tripoli and the western end though.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #17 on: 25-07-2012, 12:07:06 »
Yes, if I read the articles of Wiki and entries at Axisforum, they'll say that it was the British breakthrough at Mareth (by flanking the defensive line) that makes the axis forces in Tunisia collapsed.

Actually, I am thinking that Montgomery displayed his worth here more than what he showed in El Alamein 2. In El Al, the Afrika Korps was like exhausted and popular statistics that I read, showed that Montgomery has superior numbers of guns and tanks and planes compared to Rommel.

Meanwhile in Tunis, the Americans with their Generals (Fredendall and later Patton) practically failed in Sidi Bou Zid, both in defense and counterattack, and then again in Kasserine Pass. They achieved little gain in El Guetter though, but that was after Rommel turned his forces of 10th and 21st Panzer into east, facing the Brits. This is in contrast with Montgomery's maneuver, flanking the Mareth line from the south, and swing then north.

Offline Wakain

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #18 on: 25-07-2012, 17:07:28 »
Not having heard of the battle before fh2 I assumed, judged in part by the american muscle shown in the preview pics, Side Bou Zid was an allied victory. The Stuka in the trailer should've brought me on different views. :p

Offline AdamPA1006

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #19 on: 26-07-2012, 18:07:44 »
This is awesome, thank you.

Offline Fuchs

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #20 on: 14-08-2012, 16:08:29 »
and the belgians and dutch :(
Oh come on, the Dutch truly sucked. Outdated equipment, bad coordination and hopelessly trying to be neutral. The fighting spirit was insane though. Soldiers who's units where 'destroyed' banded up with each other and just marched back to combat.
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Offline Slayer

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #21 on: 14-08-2012, 17:08:54 »
Oh come on, the Dutch truly sucked. Outdated equipment, bad coordination and hopelessly trying to be neutral. The fighting spirit was insane though. Soldiers who's units where 'destroyed' banded up with each other and just marched back to combat.
Yes, but it wasn't a German walkover like I used to learn in primary school. The Germans didn't count on the resistance the Dutch eventually gave, after having become from the first shock.

At Grebbelinie it took 3 days instead of one to break through for the Germans, at the Afsluitdijk the Dutch stood their ground and at The Hague they counterattacked and retook an airfield.

The only German attack which went smooth was the one through the Peel-Raamstelling and the southern part of the country to Rotterdam.

Offline Comrade Roe

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #22 on: 14-08-2012, 20:08:54 »
I think history classes should be taught on this forum, everyone's discussing history.  :P

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #23 on: 14-08-2012, 20:08:56 »
I think history classes should be taught on this forum, everyone's discussing history.  :P
It is my job, actually ;)

Offline Wakain

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Re: The history of Forgotten Hope 2: Sidi Bou Zid
« Reply #24 on: 24-09-2012, 00:09:14 »
recently found out this Sidi Bou Zid and the Sidi Bou Zid the Arab Spring started refer to the same place 8)