Author Topic: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48  (Read 22392 times)

Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #60 on: 23-07-2012, 23:07:42 »
I guess "XX my ass" is quite constructive ::)

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #61 on: 23-07-2012, 23:07:49 »
kt, is there really a need for name calling? (that arcade comment
Half the complaints here are about Shreks vs tanks, that bit has always been a bit dodgy.
Ok things might play differently now, but I personally haven't had a game breaker feeling here now.
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Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #62 on: 23-07-2012, 23:07:48 »
Alright, what should be suggest had been suggested. If devs decide to keep it and attract arcade game players, compete with BF3, COD, it's their call :)

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #63 on: 23-07-2012, 23:07:57 »

It doesn't need to be "random factor", damage lowered over range whatsoever, it just need to be unconditionally one shot killed

Likely penetrated doesn't mean 100% killed in one shot, of course you know that. So why can't there be a random factor? Its definitely realistic.

Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #64 on: 23-07-2012, 23:07:54 »
Likely penetrated doesn't mean 100% killed in one shot, of course you know that. So why can't there be a random factor? Its definitely realistic.

Like you said, that's applied for "likely penetrated", in this case, panther shooting sherman from side, it's a "definitely penetrated". Besides, if we talk about random, we talk about possibilities, what survival possibility do you think is appropriate in this case? By now I can assure you in some distance which will be encontered in totalize or cobra, the survival possibility is 100%

Offline Lightning

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #65 on: 24-07-2012, 00:07:45 »
Butcher, I used that jagdpanther after you killed it. Killed 2 Shermans with it. Both with a single shot to the front armour. Later I used a panzerfaust 60 to kill a Sherman, again, hitting the front armour. You're just noticing the anglemod - which hasn't changed as far as I know.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #66 on: 24-07-2012, 03:07:22 »

It doesn't need to be "random factor", damage lowered over range whatsoever, it just need to be unconditionally one shot killed

Likely penetrated doesn't mean 100% killed in one shot, of course you know that. So why can't there be a random factor? Its definitely realistic.

This random factor is too random ingame. It doesn't reward you for flanking or trying to get behind with your own tank. I want to play the game and use my experience and skill and not just random luck. I think thatswhy it is ok to talk about such things like the underpowered Panther. If I manage to bring my tank in a perfect position to kill the enemy, then I deserve the kill. This random factors are things, that frustrate the players the most, because it feels as you have no controll. Today I was standing with the StuH behind two Shermans. I first got the normal Sherman V or II (dk exactly), and then the Firefly started to turn in my direction. He needed two shots to my front from 5 metres. It simply doesn't work like this. If he hit in a bad angle, why doesn't the shot bounce off? The first shot got through my tank, so I should have been killed. There isn't a possibility of penetrating a tank from such a range, but not being able to knock it out. We don't have such a highly detailed tank model like in ArmA or RO, so we can't experiment with random luck. We can only simulate a working (alive) - and a not working (killed) tank. Tactics should win and not luck.

There are so many nicely modeled vehicles ingame with alot of different characteristic, that would make tank combat so damn interesting. Why don't you just give them the characteristics, they deserve?

Offline [F|H]Taz18

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #67 on: 24-07-2012, 03:07:21 »
I never said anything against the arguments in this discussion, I simply pointed out the fact that the ~10 people campaigning in here for a change does not constitute the majority of FH2 players as was being claimed. It not my fault you were too short sighted to see that!  :P


WRT the topic at hand, none of you can be 100% sure about any of the instances mentioned here unless you went the dissected those incidents using BattleRecorder. That is the only way you could know what angle the shells hit at and how far the enemy tank was, those would be guesses at best as there are no measuring tools, not to mention how many tanks were actually shooting at a particular target.

Offline Oberst

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #68 on: 24-07-2012, 10:07:23 »
... He needed two shots to my front from 5 metres. It simply doesn't work like this. If he hit in a bad angle, why doesn't the shot bounce off? The first shot got through my tank, so I should have been killed. ...

But thats how the angle mod works, as far as I know. It does NOT change the penetration (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) only the damage dealt in angles under 30° between incoming shot and armor.
So basicly every shot from a gun, which hits a surface, which has a lower armor value, than the penetration of the gun, gets calculated as penetrated AND deals damage. After this the damage gets calculated.
The angle mod still allows side shots, but they deal much less damage. Though the feedback-system still tells you, you achived a hit on target, although it might not have been any sufficient damage.

So again, I MY opinion - Watch out, opinion!!!! - most things you talk about, are problems caused by angle mod and not enough/ wrong/ misunderstood feedback by the game.

Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #69 on: 24-07-2012, 12:07:21 »
For all the brilliant work work the devs do, it is always a little weird to have to step back and realize what massive arguments and discussions and wrong statements could be avoided if we just had a short paragraph explaining all of this shit from the people who actually know.
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Offline Gotkai

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #70 on: 24-07-2012, 13:07:59 »
Situation today. Mustn´t explain more i guess. 90 degress, distance 20m. Hellcat survives and i didn´t even get an assist point for kills.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #71 on: 24-07-2012, 13:07:08 »
... He needed two shots to my front from 5 metres. It simply doesn't work like this. If he hit in a bad angle, why doesn't the shot bounce off? The first shot got through my tank, so I should have been killed. ...

But thats how the angle mod works, as far as I know. It does NOT change the penetration (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) only the damage dealt in angles under 30° between incoming shot and armor.
So basicly every shot from a gun, which hits a surface, which has a lower armor value, than the penetration of the gun, gets calculated as penetrated AND deals damage. After this the damage gets calculated.
The angle mod still allows side shots, but they deal much less damage. Though the feedback-system still tells you, you achived a hit on target, although it might not have been any sufficient damage.

So again, I MY opinion - Watch out, opinion!!!! - most things you talk about, are problems caused by angle mod and not enough/ wrong/ misunderstood feedback by the game.

Standing frontal to a StuH with a Firefly and shooting at this range (5 metres!!!!!!) is like shooting from 90 degree. There is nothing left of a StuH, if the shot penetrates at such a range and it infact did. And ofcourse does the angle mod change the penetration, otherwise shots wouldn't bounce off sloped armor. Or do you always get a hit marker while shooting at a tank? And that are the situations, where the angle mod works like a charm. I made a funny test yesterday while shooting at the sloped armor of an M8 with a Panther on Bastogne. I shot like twenty times on it and always got a hit marker (damage should be dealt). Then after those twenty shots I changed the side to take a look at the armor of the M8 - and ohoh - there was zero damage dealt. So why do I get a hit marker (my feedback) and the shot doesn't simply bounce off like in other situations? I know that there are some bugs and that this system is still in development, but why get those reports of bugs only something like - "Stop Whining"?

Still, whether a Panther destroys a Sherman from 90 degree or not, isn't a matter of calculation or an opinion - or what do you expect after a Panther penetrates a Sherman from this angle? Sometimes it just feels rediciolous and frustrating, because tactics play less a role than luck. Thatswhy we are dicussing here. Antoher nice example of the weakness of the PIV gun. I was standing with my Sherman M4A1(76)W at the bridge at Cobra. A PIVH succeded to flank me from 270 degree and shot through my turret from 50 metres. Guess what had happened? He only took me half of my HP, then I simply turnt my turret and shot him in his face. Should it work like that?  ::)
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Edit for Taz: It is nice that you allege us all, who are complaining about bugs, that we told BS. Atleast you sound like this. Manage it like a Betatester and respond to feedback accordingly and not with your condescending attitude.  ;)
« Last Edit: 24-07-2012, 14:07:45 by 5hitm4k3r »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #72 on: 24-07-2012, 14:07:14 »
Angle mod does not change penetration. It only changes damage. Bouncing off only occurs, when the armor is too thick to penetrate. If you hit armour that you could penetrate at a high angle, you deal damage, but not much. You still get a hit indicator, but technically the round only chipped the paint.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #73 on: 24-07-2012, 14:07:11 »
Angle mod does not change penetration. It only changes damage. Bouncing off only occurs, when the armor is too thick to penetrate. If you hit armour that you could penetrate at a high angle, you deal damage, but not much. You still get a hit indicator, but technically the round only chipped the paint.

Is there a way to remove the hit indicator for those paint chipping hits? Would do alot more justice to the angle mod. And thanks for better explaination

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #74 on: 24-07-2012, 14:07:04 »
If there were, it would already have been removed.