Author Topic: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48  (Read 22874 times)

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #150 on: 27-07-2012, 04:07:58 »
Yep, I'd agree with that figure.  Max Fox distance still is more like 300-500m (depending on map).  Point is, the engagement range is very close, and the penetrations are horribly wonky.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #151 on: 27-07-2012, 05:07:20 »
Sure, sounds good to me.  That way, shots at the ranges combat happens at are actually doing what they would do IRL. |:  My opinion has always been that if it doesn't penetrate, it should do no damage, but if it does penetrate, it should kill.

So why there are health bars for tanks? To simulate weld joints strength? The probability of crew kill on penetration?

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #152 on: 27-07-2012, 05:07:29 »
Because it's left over from the BF2 engine and is, imo, worthless.

Offline Musti

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #153 on: 27-07-2012, 12:07:48 »
Yep, I'd agree with that figure.  Max Fox distance still is more like 300-500m (depending on map).  Point is, the engagement range is very close, and the penetrations are horribly wonky.
As much as I would like to have something like this as well (penetration = kill), we can't have that (Greyhound one-shotting Panther to the side?). BUT it definitely should be like that for the most "popular" tanks IMO(Shermans, Pz4s, STUGs etc.)
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Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #154 on: 27-07-2012, 12:07:08 »
a panther/sherman/panzer IV getting shot from the side is 80% a death tank cause most of the ammo got stored there. Especialy german tanks had that.

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Offline Kev4000

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #155 on: 29-07-2012, 19:07:50 »
On the one side, we've got people wanting more 1s1k. Or wanting penetration = kill.
On the other side, there's many who dislike being 1 shot 1 killed, especially after driving for minutes to the frontline. If the attacker survives the first hit, he has 4 seconds to spot, aim, and hopefully hit the enemy. Positioning is still the most important factor, though speed and skill have an increased role.

A Tiger survives 4 shots to the upper side (80mm) from a late Sherman 75mm, which is max penetration.
The 88mm can one shot almost any Sherman to the front (at same range where sherman requires 4 side shots).
No attention is drawn there, the 75mm L48 seems ineffective, while the ineffectiveness of the 75mm L40 matches Hollywood expectations and thus is overlooked.

Its unfortunately quite impossible for me to draw any conclusions yet. Some may want the entire damage formula changed, others may want specific cannons or tanks rebalanced. Though allied tanks aren't as weak as documentaries put it, the kill ratios were mainly due to offensive/defensive nature. So I'm taking most feedback atm with a grain of salt. Once players get more accustomed to it, in a couple weeks, I'll open a thread for more technical feedback on it. Until then, I'd suggest to play more before drawing conclusions.

Tho I am interested in general opinions. If given the option between any two tanks, which would you take? Doesn't need to be directly comparable. Did your opinion change with 2.45 when comparing any two?
M4A3 > PzIVh
Panther > Firefly

Offline AdamPA1006

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #156 on: 29-07-2012, 22:07:27 »
Barely anyone likes the new system, the posts against it in this thread outweigh the people who want to keep it.

Offline Slayer

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #157 on: 29-07-2012, 22:07:37 »
Yesterday I noticed how easy it was to 1s1k tanks from a large distance, so I thought I'd put them up here:


edit: @ AdamPA, only people who dislike it a lot will post here. It is called "silent majority" for a reason.

Offline ajappat

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #158 on: 29-07-2012, 22:07:41 »
Barely anyone likes the new system, the posts against it in this thread outweigh the people who want to keep it.
I have been silent because I think this thread is silly. Let it be said then, that I like it so far.

Offline Horstpetersens

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #159 on: 30-07-2012, 04:07:13 »
just keep it as it was in 2.4 and i'm fine. there are a lot of improvements in this patch, but this clearly cuts the fun.
again if you want to play arcade you can play bf3.
but the players here are a lot more mature
an other problem is that it may need more hits for all tanks, so it doesnt matter, but 88s and paks get killed in one shoot.
today i shot with an 88 to the side of an sherman and couldnt kill it.
he wasnt even burning.
he jumped to the side, looked at me and fired....

Offline DocHawkeye

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #160 on: 30-07-2012, 05:07:56 »
Barely anyone likes the new system, the posts against it in this thread outweigh the people who want to keep it.

I have nothing to say about the new damage model, seems pretty much the same to me. However, I would caution against using Forum polls as a measure of what people want. They actually tend to be a small or inaccurate sample of a population.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #161 on: 30-07-2012, 13:07:13 »
The thing that bothers me about this more arcadic design, is the fact that you can fastly end in a death trap after you managed to trick your opponent and used the abilities of your asset. And skill is for me not defiened by luck - and this is something that plays a too extented role in FH2 atm. I had so many situations where I thought - "Shit, now I'm done" - but at the end I had pure luck that shots bounced off from ridiculous ranges and angles or simply didn't deal the damage they should.

Offline [QPS]_Sex_Bomb

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #162 on: 30-07-2012, 18:07:52 »
So I'm taking most feedback atm with a grain of salt. Once players get more accustomed to it, in a couple weeks, I'll open a thread for more technical feedback on it. Until then, I'd suggest to play more before drawing conclusions.

I totally agree with Kev.  So far, what I like the most about the change in guns effectiveness (i can say same thing about mortars), is that all old maps need to be played differently, introducing new situations, even for those remaining untouched by 2.45 patch.  In the end, this patch makes me want to play all maps instead of only the new one.  Just for that, I can live with the small increase of arcadish feeling in tank battles.
« Last Edit: 30-07-2012, 18:07:27 by [QPS]_Sex_Bomb »

Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #163 on: 30-07-2012, 19:07:46 »
IMO, don't fix something that is not broken, 2.4 tank system works fine except some minor angle mod bug. There was some balance problem in 2.4 but that can be easily solved by tweaking the vehicle layout on some unbalanced map.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48
« Reply #164 on: 01-08-2012, 10:08:38 »
so people bitch about axis inefficiency?

PZ3= requires 3 shots frontally and 2 shots from side with >>6PDR<<
Same story with PZIV
M36 on KT side armour?2 hits needed
Panther tank sides=3 hits from 75mm M3 on medium ranges

:/
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.