Author Topic: Revolting Uniting  (Read 265818 times)

Offline PanzerKnacker

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6315 on: 22-09-2015, 20:09:40 »
ka ko si

I'll take that as "how are you", correct?
He was not wrong. Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk logistics.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6316 on: 02-10-2015, 08:10:25 »
So, after the VW diesel scandal I begin to re-think fuel economy and emission.

My family converted from all diesel-fueled car fleet to all petrol-fueled car fleet in 2004. The elders cited excessive vibration, soot, and noxious fumes as the reason to keep us healthier. We chose to spend more replacing batteries and spark plugs instead.

But like many people in mid-2000s witnessing the advancement of European diesels, I was thinking that diesel is the future, and US is wrong. Europe is leading the way with its clean high-powered diesels. But then, I sampled bad ones. The Chevy Captiva (Opel Antara) Italian diesel is particularly smelly. It generates very putrid, yet smokeless exhaust gas. I thought it was okay, but I was choking. Then Mitsubishi's 2.5 litre. It also emits similar fume, despite better quality fuels being used.

Then, we have this bullshit eco petrol engines, like Honda jazz's 1.5 litre, doing 7-8 litre / 100 km on average of very dense traffic conditions. However, since it was sold in Indonesia, the emission rating is downgraded to Euro 2 spec. It is noticeably smelly, but not as bad as the previous diesel ones.

DLFReporter once said that his 1.9 litre VW is doing 7-8 l / 100 km on a normal day. So, I get a new car, the new Mazda with SkyActiv things in it. It has more power and does about the same fuel consumption rate (with the help of start-stop function), but performed miraculous 4.7 l /100 km on toll roads (highway). It is a Euro 6 spec one, so its exhaust gas is supposed to be cleaner than this city's "breathable" air. I am quite content with sticking to petrol engines. It is not as torque-y as diesel engines (therefore fun), but at least it is smoother and for now, cleaner.

Are any of you there in Europe still attached to diesel for environmental sake? I heard the French are deciding whether to ban diesels or not. Some are admitting that it was a rather hasty decision to tackle global warming.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6317 on: 02-10-2015, 12:10:08 »
My Ford fiesta (2008)1.3 Gasoline Duratec does 6 l/100km. 33 liter of gasoline gets me 570+- KM

Gasoline is always cleaner then a diesel engine. I stick to my gasoline car. Here in Belgium, anyone driving a gasoline engine over 1.4l is considered crazy. Well my friend, she bought a ford focus 2013 1.6 gasoline car. Well that thing has the same fuel economy as my fiesta. And it has sufficient power.

And be damn sure my next car will again be a gasoline car.

I always fuel up with euro 95 (100 octane fuel) but switch to euro 98 fuel (105) in winter time
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Offline Musti

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6318 on: 02-10-2015, 13:10:13 »
Well. I always said diesel is the fuel of satan (Actually, Clarkson said that one) and diesel engines belong to trucks and agriculture machinery, outside of old Mercedes diesels from 80's and 90's, those can stay.

Anyway, people are fond of diesel for it's fuel economy, percieved reliability and servicing costs, and I'm sure there wasn't much "enviromental concern" involved anyway.
About the "scandal" itself: Let's be honest here, every car maker is cheating, It was known very well for a  long time, VW was just the unlucky one that got caught. Acutally this goes for both economy and safety tests.

Here in Belgium, anyone driving a gasoline engine over 1.4l is considered crazy.
I must be some kind of antichrist with my 2.3 litre Volvo :D.
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Offline Airshark79

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6319 on: 02-10-2015, 14:10:11 »
Using a car is either an absolute necessity or the epitome of selfishness.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6320 on: 02-10-2015, 15:10:35 »
I need to see my friends who live 15km away. We see eachother daily

so yes, neccesity
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6321 on: 02-10-2015, 17:10:10 »

About the "scandal" itself: Let's be honest here, every car maker is cheating, It was known very well for a  long time, VW was just the unlucky one that got caught. Acutally this goes for both economy and safety tests.


That doesn't mean we shouldn't fuck them over if they get caught.

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6322 on: 02-10-2015, 17:10:17 »

About the "scandal" itself: Let's be honest here, every car maker is cheating, It was known very well for a  long time, VW was just the unlucky one that got caught. Acutally this goes for both economy and safety tests.


That doesn't mean we shouldn't fuck them over if they get caught.

True, but I always find this moralistic posturing misguided, what needs to be changed is the economic system that rewards this behavior.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6323 on: 02-10-2015, 20:10:27 »
Well, the diesel BMW X-5 they tested along with the Passat passed the bare minimum, while the Passat flunked with the result being 40 times worse.

I agree that "all of them cheated." But VW has been doing it since the 1970s in the US. They just make a big deal about it now. Because of internet and the sudden need and urge to be instant hero in this modern society. But they are the evil-VW ruled by nefarious the European aristocratic family hellbent on global car market domination by all means necessary.

The Germans never learned. Daimler-Benz took Chrysler to outsize Toyota and GM, a similar ambition being pursued by VAG. They destroyed Chrysler and Mercedes-Benz's name. Well, it took 2 world wars for the Germans to...

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6324 on: 03-10-2015, 10:10:57 »
...yet why is the US complaining when the average US car consumption is 14 liter of gas and the average european is half that..
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6325 on: 03-10-2015, 12:10:01 »
I can be anti-American most of the times, however I have to explain this one:

The US government passed emission regulations back in 1970s. So US cars with its gas guzzling over-5 litre "small block" V-8s have to cut back its enthusiasm. So, they detune the engine, install power-absorbing catalytic converters, and so on. So the 1980s Ford Mustang has 4 litre engine that generates 130 horsepower, but with the torque still at the "fun range".

Then, the Japanese came with small reliable engines. Ford & Chrysler decided that "maybe it is a good idea" and licensed it. Chrysler then went on to become a very serious force to be reckoned in 1990s.

This is Honda's story of teaching the arrogant GM a lesson:
http://jalopnik.com/when-honda-gave-gm-one-of-historys-most-amazing-smackdo-1576732771

This is also another typical Teutonic arrogance from VW in 1970s:
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagens-history-of-lying-about-emissions-controls-d-1733739716

Fast forward, Daimler-Benz ambition has ruined Mercedes Benz and undo Chrysler's brilliance with all that cost-saving malarkey. Still, nobody can topple that boring Toyota from the top place.

But lately, I saw GM cars having 2.3 litre engines, 2 litre engines, and generating more power than its equivalent Japanese counterpart. Ford has this Ecoboost thing, which is quite awesome. They are catching up. The Corvette has a 5-litre engine that can de-activate 4 out of its 8 cylinders to save fuel. At "daily driving mode", they are no worse than a V6 Camry at 27 MPG. It is US that is catching up and looking forward to be the winner.

While Toyota is desperately seeking out for technology partners like Subaru (the 86 & BRZ), Mazda (the new SkyActiv things will be in 2016 Toyota lineup), BMW (The Z4 Supra, BMW hybrid, and the new super car), and so on. The Japanese are the future loser. The Germans will stay the same, or maybe worse because of VAG. Currently they are unaffected at all, because the TSI engines are still brilliant if you don't buy in to their TDI nonsense. The UK will experience a slight bump up due to the perceived "coolness" of their current cars. The French? I don't think we'll see them in significant quantity in meantime, unless they do something brilliant.

Offline Redbadd

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6326 on: 04-10-2015, 00:10:42 »
My brother did his final studie project, to finish his studie, at a german company that tested and build converted cars to run on natural gas (Car would go to Iran). They tested an Opel and they remarked that they thought it had what they refered to as "test killer" software. It would fail a test at first and the second time it would stay within the desired parameters. That would have been some 8 years ago.
Opel is General Motors i think.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6327 on: 05-10-2015, 21:10:24 »
Using a car is either an absolute necessity or the epitome of selfishness.
Most of all it´s fun. I don´t really need my car.

I use it because it saves time, I don´t have to stand in the crowded train or wait for connecting trains. I save about an hour everyday when driving car and I have fun traveling. If you call that selfish, so be it. I call that not being stuck into a wagon like cattle, having to take a train earlier to not come too late. :D
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Offline MaJ.P.Bouras

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6328 on: 05-10-2015, 23:10:07 »
Motorcycles ftw

20€ a month and i can roam all around Athens, filtering through traffic and not having to look for hours for parking.

Offline Smiles

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Re: Revolting Uniting
« Reply #6329 on: 06-10-2015, 01:10:55 »
I'm taking my own freedom
puttin' it in my song
singing loud and strong
proving all day long
I'm takin' my freedom
puttin' it in my stroll
I'll be hop-steppin' y'all
lettin' the joy unfold